Depth Ratings for CCr's

[Wibble]

Just a little nitpick. Technically CE is not a certification. By putting the CE on a product, the manufacturer or the importer declares conformity with the EU standards.
Lots of CE labeled products have never gone through any third party testing and don't have to.
Rebreathers fall under PPE and have to be tested by a third party under EN14143. (https://www.beuth.de/en/standard/din-en-14143/169769832)

Expensive.

If the design changes, needs re-testing. Can slow innovation.

 

[berndo]

Expensive.

If the design changes, needs re-testing. Can slow innovation.

Do you know how much it is?

Testing life support gear before putting it on the open market makes a lot of sense.
It's looks like most rebreathers come out of the EU. Doesn't look like it's slowing innovation at all.

 

[Wibble]

Do you know how much it is?

Testing life support gear before putting it on the open market makes a lot of sense.
It's looks like most rebreathers come out of the EU. Doesn't look like it's slowing innovation at all.

Circa $100k from what I've read/heard. That's a huge amount of money for a market where total sales of 1000 units is a big volume.

Of course the EU imposes those restrictions so you cannot sell equipment into the market -- protectionism? You can -- as a huge number of people do -- simply bring in your US import into Europe for personal use. Same for selling it. KISS, Sidewinder, Choptima for example.

You'll probably find that the US system of sue-their-arses-off holds back innovation just as much as the EU's overbearing regulations.

AIUI, any small change to a type-approved system needs to be re-tested which makes it very expensive to fix issues or do small incremental tweaks. Bad for small companies. Also takes a long time to test and document, normally farmed out to third parties.

Would be curious to see, as an example, if the GUE JJ is CE approved. Doubt it. Probably sold as a standard unit and you order the other parts and build it yourself.

Also wonder if Bailout Valves are certified.

 

[berndo]

Circa $100k from what I've read/heard. That's a huge amount of money for a market where total sales of 1000 units is a big volume.

Apparently you never worked in any type of engineering buisness. Any legit business would do in-house testing or by a contactor for this type of stuff too, which also costs money even without CE. 100 grand is peanuts when you design and build machines and want to do testing. You don't need to sell even close to 1000 units a year to make it a viable business. JJ isn't selling close to 1000 units and the dude who makes them is doing pretty well... and they are in Denmark. Denmark is really expensive to live in and produce in and the JJ is at only around 7.5 grand pretty cheap for a dive ready unit.

Of course the EU imposes those restrictions so you cannot sell equipment into the market -- protectionism? You can -- as a huge number of people do -- simply bring in your US import into Europe for personal use. Same for selling it. KISS, Sidewinder, Choptima for example.

Apparently you don't know what the protectionism means. The rules for testing apply for imports as much as they do for domestically made products. That's not protectionism.
If extra rules applied for imports it would be protectionism. Putting tax on certain imports to protect domestic manufacturing would be another example.
Sounds kinda like you watched lots fo brexit propaganda on TV and haven't yet realised that it was all lies.

You'll probably find that the US system of sue-their-arses-off holds back innovation just as much as the EU's overbearing regulations.

Oh yeah, EU regulations are holding people back. Lets go back to have lead paint in kids toys and buildings full with asbestos.
What rebreather come out of the US? Meg, KISS, Hollis, DiveRite, Fathom? What else? KISS is the only big seller internationally and only in recent years probabaly only because it's cheap and tons of social media marketing.
There are more units coming out of the bad bad highly regulated EU. JJ, liberty, t-reb, submatix, xccr, inspo, revo, triton, sf-2, rebare/sentinel, poseidon and tons of under the radar units like the pSCR tube style once.
How are the regulations overbearing exactly?

Would be curious to see, as an example, if the GUE JJ is CE approved. Doubt it.

This makes no sense. There is no 'GUE JJ'. The CCR itself is the same, it's only the configuration that's changed. Re-testing a unit because you want to use a different wing and tanks makes no sense, whatsoever. The JJ was designed so you can run it with different tanks.

 

[Wibble]

Apparently you never worked in any type of engineering buisness. Any legit business would do in-house testing or by a contactor for this type of stuff too, which also costs money even without CE. 100 grand is peanuts when you design and build machines and want to do testing. You don't need to sell even close to 1000 units a year to make it a viable business. JJ isn't selling close to 1000 units and the dude who makes them is doing pretty well... and they are in Denmark. Denmark is really expensive to live in and produce in and the JJ is at only around 7.5 grand pretty cheap for a dive ready unit.

Apparently you don't know what the protectionism means. The rules for testing apply for imports as much as they do for domestically made products. That's not protectionism.
If extra rules applied for imports it would be protectionism. Putting tax on certain imports to protect domestic manufacturing would be another example.
Sounds kinda like you watched lots fo brexit propaganda on TV and haven't yet realised that it was all lies.


Oh yeah, EU regulations are holding people back. Lets go back to have lead paint in kids toys and building full with asbestos.
What rebreather come out of the US? Meg, KISS, Hollis, DiveRite, Fathom? What else? KISS is the only big seller internationally and only in recent years probabaly only because it's cheap and tons of social media marketing.
There are more units coming out of the bad bad highly regulated EU. JJ, liberty, t-reb, submatix, xccr, inspo, revo, triton, sf-2, rebare/sentinel, poseidon and tons of under the radar units like the pSCR tube style once.
How are the regulations overbearing exactly?

This makes no sense. There is no 'GUE JJ'. The CCR itself is the same, it's only the configuration that's changed. Re-testing a unit because you want to use a different wing and tanks makes no sense, whatsoever. The JJ was designed so you can run it with different tanks.

You ass-u-me way too much.

 

[berndo]

You ass-u-me way too much.

Lol. Very cute.

The only assumption I made was about you watching and repeating Reese-Mogg's and Boris's brexit propaganda about how the evil EU is bad for innovation and business in general by 'imposing' restrictions.

 

[Wibble]

Lol. Very cute.

The only assumption I made was about you watching and repeating Reese-Mogg's and Boris's brexit propaganda about how the evil EU is bad for innovation and business in general by 'imposing' restrictions.

How off topic do you want to go?

 

[berndo]

How off topic do you want to go?

Ok, so why are there so many CCRs made in the EU when the regulations are so bad?

Are going to admit that mandatory testing of openly sold PPE type stuff it's not protectionism?

BTW: Where have you read that testing is a 100 grand?

 

[evandroairton]

AFAIK the only issue with stock inspirations were the buzzer imploding around 160 m. I think it's even stated on the manual