Denied Air Fill Due to Not Safe Air Cert

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for ANY shops insurance they need to follow the guidleines of their agancies and the recognized experts..

in this case the experts are

The valve and tank manufacturers
CGA (for the US)
US NAVY and NOAA..
Excuse me, but the recognized experts when it comes to NITROX are Rutkowski and Wells.
If there is an accident a good lawyer will fry you if you violate one of these groups recommendations..
My lawyer made me do it ... always a great excuse.
The above is also why most shops enforce the strict labeling of Nitrox tanks with wraps or painted lettering since its specifically stated in the NOAA manual.. The simple MOD rating for NITROX tanks doesnt meet these guidlines and could void your insurance.. BTW there are no official guidelines for tanks with other gases like trimix..
Go read the policy, they don't get down into that sort of minutia.
=AND if you think high pressure 32% is safe in all conditions, I have a picture of a compressor that blew up making 32% (I don't rember if it was continuous blending or NITROX stick)
Pray tell what that has to do with filling from banked 32?
Thirdly an O2 fire is not the big concern here its really that of INCOMPLETE combustion.. a "flash" fire can happen at these "normal" concentrations (this usually can only happen with fast pressurization when opening the valve).. There will generally be no outward signs.. what happens is that any contaminates on the valve or regulator (usuall hydrocarbon deposit like oil) will combust generating alot of CO... This is bad and generally undectable...
As you say, at 40% or less you need to have significant hydrocarbons present. Let's not confuse the requirements to 40% and pure oxygen, which is what you are doing.
 
The above is also why most shops enforce the strict labeling of Nitrox tanks with wraps or painted lettering since its specifically stated in the NOAA manual.. The simple MOD rating for NITROX tanks doesnt meet these guidlines and could void your insurance.

Any time I've challenged a shop owner ... including one I used to work for ... so show me that guideline, they have been unable to produce it.

Can you?

Until I see some evidence that NOAA or anyone else specifically states that banner wraps are required ... well, let's just say I'm skeptical of the truth of the claim.

I also don't buy that it could "void" your insurance. If that were the case, all shops would be requiring them. Where I live, only a minority do ... and they are easily avoided.

AFAIK, there is no written requirement by any governing agency requiring banner wraps on scuba cylinders ... if it exists, please produce a verifiable reference to the agency that requires it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
ANDI requires it ... Betts' law.
 
ANDI requires it ... Betts' law.

... calling ANDI standards an industry guideline is like calling DIR standards a federal mandate ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
You got that right.
 
I must have missed something... I didn't know ANDI even existed any more. Did someone resurect it after the IANTD debacle?
 
Padiscubapro,

If one of your customers gets a fill somewhere else do you insist on O2 cleaning their tank again before you will fill with banked 32%?

THAT is a very interesting question! Not such a big deal with banked 32 but a really big deal for PP blenders.

Richard
 
Damn, all the focus is on the tank which is the least of the HP O2 issue. It's the valve that is of most concern, not that damn tank.

If the valve is where heating will occur and it the biggest concern with HP O2. The tank is of secondary to little concern to me.

A dive shop wants to charge money to light up the inside of the tank with UV which will show them squat.. and probably ignore the most important part, the VALVE. RUN AWAY! :)

Frankly, if a shop requires me to have a big nitrox sticker then that shop does not get my money. (side rant )
 
If you walk into an ANDI shop and they start spouting "SafeAir" they are really talking about ultra pure Grade E breathing air, oxygen cleaned cylinders and oxygen built/clean valves and regulators.

Yes, it is overkill for the mainstream recreational scuba industry. Is it overkill for the technical/trimix espiring scuba diver? Maybe not.

I think it is better to have you equipment rigged, cleaned and upgraded for the most demanding situation you are moving toward. In this case partial pressure Nitrox blending, which is the standard ANDI method of making Nitrox fills.

Is an oxygen clean cylinder and valve necessary for a Nitrox fill off a banked (i.e. pre-mixed) Nitrox supply? No, it is not necessary.

Do ALL scuba shops that offer Nitrox, especially any percentage you might want, use banked mixes, no. Therefore having your gear oxygen cleaned and built with oxygen service parts is a good precationary measure because you might not fill at the same shop every time.

Physics is physics, oxygen under high pressure does weired and some what dangerous stuff. I'm not so sure that arguing aginst clean gear and cylinder content marking is such a good thing when you are dealing with the general public (i.e. mainstream scuba divers). That little peice of duct tape your write the MOD for a cylinder on might be ok for you, but what about the poor smuck resort diver that grabbs a cylinder of mix because it looks just like all the other cylinders laying around, except for that little peice of tape that got stuck to it? Mistakes in diving occur, lets promote procedures to minimize them instead of denouncing everything because it is more expensive.

you want to dive air only, you want to have cylinders that have never been mared by a VIP sticker or a sticker of any kind, then more-power-to-you. But be careful what you preach to the general diving community.

Oh, plus you might get banned from the ScubaBoard DIR forum :D
 
Who mentioned "sticker of any kind?" I said a BIG nitrox sticker and implying MY bottle.
If I'm at a resort, I'm probably using rental tanks which means I could give a sh!t what kind of stickers they have on it.

No one is arguing against clean gear, are they? Who's doing that?

I'm not putting those BIG nitrox stickers on MY tanks.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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