“Demonstration skills”

[Eric Sedletzky]

Is this a textbook example of what all of you guys are bitching about constantly?
“They are going to show the newest student this”
Show them what?
How to do advanced skills on their knees?
When you have to clear your mask or do skills in the wild do you drop to the bottom on your knees? What if there’s no bottom?

 

[tursiops]

So you found an old diving program that has not yet been modernized.
What is your point?

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Nothing much has changed. Business as usual.
This isn’t an old diving program, this is now..cutting edge stuff, university stuff. It’s embarrassing!
I thought we talked about this?
Did someone not get the memo?

 

[tursiops]

Nothing much has changed. Business as usual.
This isn’t an old diving program, this is now..cutting edge stuff, university stuff. It’s embarrassing!
I thought we talked about this?
Did someone not get the memo?

It is an old ;program, currently being taught. Probably to be revised, too, someday when they get around to it, and get motivated.
The fact that it is at a University does NOT make it cutting edge.

 

[TMHeimer]

In poking the bear a little I will say I was taught on my knees and never once went to the bottom to clear my mask. Made no sense.

 

[crofrog]

It is an old ;program, currently being taught. Probably to be revised, too, someday when they get around to it, and get motivated.
The fact that it is at a University does NOT make it cutting edge.

So you found an old diving program that has not yet been modernized.
What is your point?

In many other fields, there's a structured approach to maintaining and improving the quality of education and training. For example, instructors in aviation, healthcare, and other technical domains are required to complete recurrent training and continuing education units to stay current with industry developments and changing standards. This kind of systematic approach helps ensure that the training provided remains relevant and effective, aligning with the latest knowledge and technologies.

Why do you think that doesn't exist in scuba?

 

[tursiops]

In many other fields, there's a structured approach to maintaining and improving the quality of education and training. For example, instructors in aviation, healthcare, and other technical domains are required to complete recurrent training and continuing education units to stay current with industry developments and changing standards. This kind of systematic approach helps ensure that the training provided remains relevant and effective, aligning with the latest knowledge and technologies.

Why do you think that doesn't exist in scuba?

Aviation and healthcare are government regulated. Do you want that in scuba?

 

[crofrog]

Aviation and healthcare are government regulated. Do you want that in scuba?

Is that the only reason they do it?

For the most part those CEUs are controlled by the professional association not the government. You’re failing to answer the question. You could write a master class on defending poor quality and celebrating mediocrity.

 

[eightytwenty]

Is this a textbook example of what all of you guys are bitching about constantly?
“They are going to show the newest student this”
Show them what?
How to do advanced skills on their knees?
When you have to clear your mask or do skills in the wild do you drop to the bottom on your knees? What if there’s no bottom?

 

[boulderjohn]

I am very sorry to say that 13 years after PADI published the article advocating teaching OW classes with students neutrally buoyant and in horizontal trim from the start of the class, there are still countless instructors teaching on the knees like this, and, even worse, they don't even know there is any controversy about it. I just saw a dive operation in South Florida advertise its instruction on a FaceBook site, and all the students were doing skills kneeling---and this was on their OW dives, not an early pool session. I made a comment about it, of course, and their response was "What's the issue?" They had never heard of doing it any other way and didn;t know whay it was a problem.

But let's talk about the mask clearing issue, because it is a prime example of why you should not teach that skill on the knees.

We tell students that they are supposed to tip their heads back when they clear the mask. Why is that? Because the mask needs to be perpendicular, with the bottom skirt of the mask needs to be the lowest point so the water will run out properly. But that is only true if the diver is in proper diving form! If the diver is kneeling, the mask is already perpendicular--it may even be past perpendicular. Tipping the head back is counterproductive. When the student is taught this skill in horizontal trim, then the head must be tipped back, or the water will accumulate in the bottom of the mask and stay there. Divers who learn the skill while kneeling will typically swing their entire bodies to a vertical position to clear the mask.