Delay AOW?

[HappyFunBoater]

Well, first off, those aren't the only two available choices ... and even if it were, the answer would be "it depends on the circumstances".

Agreed. And unfortunately that's why these arguments degrade to both sides making true but contradictory statements based on their own unique situation.

The point of AOW shouldn't be to help you master the skills you learned in OW ... mastering skills (in diving or just about any other physically-related recreational activity) is as much about training your body to respond to muscle-memory as it is about actual knowledge. In this respect, you need to practice.

Indeed. Practicing is a great, and obvious, way to get better at something. And having more instruction is also a great way. And doing both at the same time is perhaps even better.

Let's make an analogy with another sport that draws on muscle-memory ... skiing. You go out and take a lesson. Your instructor shows you a few things to work on. Do you then go out and practice those skills, to the point where you're reasonably competent with them? Or do you immediately go in and sign up for another lesson on the assumption that you'll get more out of the practice if an instructor is with you? Well, the answer is that it depends on whether your intent is to learn new skills or reinforce ones you've already been taught.

If I could afford it I would have an instructor with me the entire time, critiquing and giving advice on how to get better.

Same goes with AOW. Some instructors market it as a class to learn new skills. Others market it as "five more dives under supervision". The problem with the latter is that those dives aren't going to teach you anything new if you're still struggling with the stuff you learned in OW ... that's why so many people post on this forum that they didn't learn anything in AOW.

As I said earlier, if that person is struggling with OW then it's a shame that their instructor passed them. But alas that's how the system works.

If your OW instructor did a decent job, you can learn plenty by practicing on your own ... you're training your body to do what your head already knows it's supposed to do. And you'll do a much better job of learning it in a familiar environment ... i.e. shallow, benign conditions ... than you will by doing a deep dive or a night dive, where you've got other things going on that you need to be paying attention to.

Actually, what I'm saying is that you'll get far more out of your AOW class if you wait till you're comfortable with your basic skills before taking it. There are any number of threads in this forum where that debate has already taken place. What I have gotten from reading them is that a significant number of people who said they got nothing out of their AOW felt that way because they took the class too soon ... and so their instructor had to spend his or her time working on remediating basic skills rather than teaching anything new.

Yep, some take it too soon and some too late. We can both win the argument by pointing out the extremes.

But as for deeper diving, let me ask you a question ... did your AOW instructor teach you anything about gas management? If so, what? Dive planning? What? Buddy skills? What? How, exactly, did you learn to prepare for a deep dive?

I learned that I could open a combination lock at 100ft faster than I could at the surface. Oh, and the tennis ball had a hole in it.

Seriously, my AOW didn't teach me enough. That's why I want to go to the next level of certification. But I still maintain that learning from someone else is better than not learning at all - not that you disagree. Who would? It really all depends on who your dive buddies are and whether in an environment where you can learn from others.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Can't we all just get along? I love you, man.

 

[Aaron203]

For me personally, I actually haven't felt comfortable taking the AOW until I had a few dives under my belt.

I actually got lucky and after I got my OW in college and moved, my wife met somebody who's husband is a DM and he and I hit it off and went diving quite a bit. It was very helpful to have somebody with that expierence go with me and give me somebody to watch / question / teach me the finer skills. This is probably an execption instead of the norm. For me personally, I'm not sure I would have gotten that out of a AOW class in just five dives.

It is just getting to the point where I feel confident enough in my skills and my ability to take the AOW.

 

[WarrenZ]

I strongly feel that if a diver any diver gets their open water cert they should get between 20 and 30 dives in before getting involved in an AOW course. I have seen a lot of people do their OW one month and AOW the next without any dives in between. I think they would have gotten more out of the second class had they had a little more experience before going on the advanced.

Experience will help hone your skills and let you ask better questions / learn more from the AOW class. Besides you should feel comfortable with your basic skills before going on to more challenging situations the best way to gain comfort in something is to practice it.

Just my thoughts and advice.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I learned that I could open a combination lock at 100ft faster than I could at the surface. Oh, and the tennis ball had a hole in it.

That's kind've my beef with the way some AOW classes get taught ... what did those experiences teach you about deep diving? Anything at all?

Seriously, my AOW didn't teach me enough. That's why I want to go to the next level of certification. But I still maintain that learning from someone else is better than not learning at all - not that you disagree. Who would? It really all depends on who your dive buddies are and whether in an environment where you can learn from others.

I certainly don't disagree ... I do teach scuba diving, after all ... But I will not accept a student into my AOW class until I think they're ready for some real learning experiences. Then again, I can honestly say that I haven't had any AOW student tell me (or anyone else I'm aware of) that their AOW class didn't teach them enough.

Can't we all just get along? I love you, man.

Hopefully, we ARE getting along ... these discussions are only worthwhile if divergent opinions are expressed and examined. You've asked some good questions, and I made an effort to answer them ... and ask some of my own. I hope I haven't in any way given the impression that I disrespect your opinion. But I also hope that these divergent opinions are useful to the OP, and others who are considering additional instruction.

A lot of the difference in perspectives are because we all live in different areas, dive under different conditions, and deal with different circumstances. Around here, finding dive buddies ... even very good dive buddies ... isn't all that difficult. A good mentor can be every bit as valuable (or more so) than a good instructor. They can provide a learning opportunity without the constraints imposed by formal instruction ... or the need to hawk additional classes in order to keep the business running.

As Reefraff said earlier, there is no "one size fits all" solution.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ehuber]

Each diver must decide for themselves the way they wish to approach AOW certification. For those who wish it to be an affirmation of diving ability and competency in the water, then definitely wait before enrolling in AOW. It is not my opinion that advanced ability is what the course is really about.

For those who wish to have a preview of adventure dives and a preliminary skill set before embarking on these types of adventure dives, I'd say feel free to take it earlier... but understand that AOW does not inherently prove ability or competency with diving. It would only be an intro to adventure dives with a qualified instructor to help guide you.

That having been said... you should feel comfortable in the water and with the equipment before you try adventure dives of any kind, particularly deep, drift, or wreck. I don't believe education in diving early is necessarily bad, but if it gives you an erroneous impression of your own ability then the consequences could be serious for both you and/or your dive buddies.

This is an interesting question which --I believe-- should be discussed with the instructor.

 

[Rogue_Diver]

Wow, lots of opinion about this...so I'll add mine. I did about 40 dives before doing my AOW. In that first 40 I learned quite a bit about buoyancy control, navigation, boats, how to recover from stupid mistakes, how to work all the bits and pieces of gear, working with buddies I know and don't know, the list goes on. I also bought a drysuit at about dive 10. It took a couple pool dives to figure out how not to do the upside down rocket ride to the surface,, and how to upright yourself if you do. It took about 10 more dives to get fully comfortable (or safe) with all the different aspects of it. All of this added to to a good working knowlege to bring to my AOW class. It was a good foundation of experience and I got a lot from my AOW class. I would do it again in this order.

 

[jbd]

As far as an AOW class goes, I believe you should take that directly after OW.

You just got certified. 5 more dives with an instructor learning more of the basics would do you alot of good (I get a kick out of instructors trying to sell Peak Performance Buoyancy after OW)...

I think Advanced Open Water is a poor name for the class... it makes people perceive that you are Advanced in the skills of diving. When in fact, you merely took the time to polish those basic skills that you learned in OW.

Regarding OW courses, the basic skills of diving are mask and regulator skills, ascending and descending, finning techniques, bouyancy control and airsharing. Most courses will touch on compass use also. Most will offer at least some very minimal concept of gas management. Most have a depth limit of 60 feet.

The AOW course is for learning about different diving activities, not polishing skills that were learned in the OW course.

If all an AOW course is merely taking the time to polish previously learned skills then maybe thats why so many people are disappointed in their AOW course and consider it a waste of money.

Most people straight out of the typical OW course are not ready, from a skills perspective, to take an actual AOW course.

 

[jponline77]

Great opinions... I can see this is a bit of a hot topic. Thanks for all the perspectives.

I like a topic where I can take a number of things away from it. I didn't really see the AOW as an introductory course. I kind of thought of it like OW, I am now certified to night dive, deep dive, etc... In reality, this is purely based on comfort level and experience. I see that from this discussion.

I do feel though, based on what I've seen and read that 100 feet is much less forgiving to mistakes than is 60ft. That extra 40ft can make a big difference. Also, I do want to get some drysuit experience before I move onto the AOW course. It seems that this will make sense.

I am confident that I can handle myself well under normal circumstance and even normal issues. However, what happens when at 90ft the dry suit inflator gets stuck? Can I think clear enough to pull the inflator from the drysuit and deflate quick enough that I'm not an a 100ft uncontrolled ascent? Probably, but being more comfortable with equipment definately increase that chance.

The other thing that I have been thinking about is, why rush anyway? Let me wear out the shallow dive experiences. Then I can feel excited about the deeper dives/night dives to reinvigorate my diving. It will lengthen the amount of time that I can enjoy the sport.

 

[HappyFunBoater]

As Reefraff said earlier, there is no "one size fits all" solution.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I completely agree. And of course it's almost impossible to answer the OP accurately because we just don't know enough about him. All we can do is speak from our personal experience.

BTW, I only had a few dives (5?) between my OW and AOW. Before learning to dive I had spent a ton of time in and on the water, had been snorkeling for years, and was fairly healthy and physically capable. I felt great in the water and I still do. I just wish everyone felt like I did after my OW. Sadly there are a TON of really bad divers out there.

 

[verybaddiver]

We don't shore dive in my area over the entire period of say august-april. To use the boats you have to be atleast AOW qualified therefore it makes total sense to take AOW straight after the OW course, simply to make the 12 metre dives during the winter months. Ofcourse i don't like this artificial requirement but it's just the way it is.