Definition of technical diving

[diverbrian]

Mike:

I guess it depends on your goals in diving. I am not out to invent anything. I am happy to enjoy the technology that others have ironed out. With due respect, many of those pioneers are no longer with us because they pushed their limits a little too far.

I learn from the people who have been there. I am not out to blaze those trails myself. I see myself as a recreational diver that dabbles in the world where the surface is NOT my friend. Yes, that has helped my general dive skills as well. As Pipedode points out, the actual principles of physics and gas laws are the same underwater no matter what type of diving that you do. My little forays into the world of "soft overheads" make me (by recreational agency definitions) a tech diver at times. I learn much from the "tech diving community" as well. My knowledge of rigging gear and general diving increases exponentially when I am with "tech divers". But, I try not to shut myself down to divers (like my LDS owner and many veteran recreational instructors) who have been diving since the seventies and move effortlessly underwater.

There is much to learn from everybody and I sometimes see a contest between the "recreational" and "technical" worlds when there shouldn't be such a contest. For the most part, we all cooperate. But, I have noticed an attitude that a diver who doesn't feel like looking at an ascent line for an extended amount of time in order to do decompression stops is somehow less knowledgable. That is simply not always the case. They just enjoy a certain brand of diving. I enjoy mine.

 

[MikeFerrara]

There is much to learn from everybody and I sometimes see a contest between the "recreational" and "technical" worlds when there shouldn't be such a contest.

I don't see it as a contest but I'm not happy with what I see from the recreational diving industry.

I have noticed an attitude that a diver who doesn't feel like looking at an ascent line for an extended amount of time in order to do decompression stops is somehow less knowledgable. That is simply not always the case. They just enjoy a certain brand of diving. I enjoy mine.

I don't at all look down on a diver who doesn't want to participate in technical diving. It's natural that most won't and some shouldn't. I don't care much for the way that some agencies and shops present technical diving to their students and customers, though.

We wasted lots of time and money figuring things out.

The fact is that most shops that I've been in are not tech friendly. The few services that a tech diver needs from a shop are very different from what a rec divinr needs. I don't buy their trips, they aren't working on my regs or my tanks and most don't carry any gear that I'd ever use. They sure wouldn't want me talking to a diver looking for a bc or a pair of fins. LOL

 

[diverbrian]

I don't see it as a contest but I'm not happy with what I see from the recreational diving industry.



The fact is that most shops that I've been in are not tech friendly. The few services that a tech diver needs from a shop are very different from what a rec divinr needs. I don't buy their trips, they aren't working on my regs or my tanks and most don't carry any gear that I'd ever use.

With due respect, there is a difference. Seeing that I don't do my own tank fills (and don't intend to buy the compressor and oxygen to do it), I have to have my tanks appropriately marked for a dive shop to fill them. I have not taken any courses in visuals and the shop won't let anyone short of an instructor or full-time staff fill fill tanks for them (that includes me) due to liability reasons. I just tore my doubles apart today for O2 cleaning as the tech wants the valves so that he can repack them with O2 compatible material. I have to clean the actual tanks myself. His job takes longer. It isn't that rough to take the valve off a tank or separate doubles (or as bad as I thought that it would be in any case) and I will grant you that.

You used to own a shop. That means that you have the maintenance certs, tools, and gear to do your own gas mixing and maintenance. I would imagine that you invested a great deal of time and money into that. Most of us have not owned shops and from what I have seen and read: I, for one, never will. It would take the fun right out of diving. I will not invest that kind of capital (time and money BOTH) into something that is only for me in my life.

So the dive shop is still my primary place to have my gear maintained. Also, all of the dive gear (with obvious exceptions of snaps and minor stuff) that I own came out of that shop. Much of it is the same as the "technical divers" on this board use. So, yes, the dive shop does carry much of what I need. What they don't have in stock (like my canister light), they can call and order.

In other words, not having owned all this stuff, I am in a position to still find a use for the dive shop. And "tech talk" happens all of the time in the backroom. The owner here would just not prefer to confuse the customers with it.

 

[MikeFerrara]

With due respect, there is a difference. Seeing that I don't do my own tank fills (and don't intend to buy the compressor and oxygen to do it),

Unless you're very wealthy it's hard to use much trimix without doing it yourself. In my case, before going to Missouri to do a cave dive I'd have to first find the time to make a couple trips to Chicago for gas because there isn't any shop around here that would know what to do with helium.

I have to have my tanks appropriately marked for a dive shop to fill them.

Tank marking is another can of worms isn't it. We have O2 clean vis stickers but other than that stage and decompression bottles are marked with the analysis on a piece of tape and the MOD in big numbers. That's it. No silly expensive nitrox wraps.

I have not taken any courses in visuals and the shop won't let anyone short of an instructor or full-time staff fill fill tanks for them (that includes me) due to liability reasons.

Liability risks are no different for an instructor while filling tanks. If you hever have enough tanks to do much in the way of technical diving you'll likely want to vis the tanks yourself.

I just tore my doubles apart today for O2 cleaning as the tech wants the valves so that he can repack them with O2 compatible material. I have to clean the actual tanks myself. His job takes longer. It isn't that rough to take the valve off a tank or separate doubles (or as bad as I thought that it would be in any case) and I will grant you that.

You lost me. You're cleaning the tanks but the tech wants the valves to pack them with something? Cleaning the tanks takes way longer than cleaning the valves. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something but it sounds like you should check into what they're doing with the valves.

You used to own a shop. That means that you have the maintenance certs, tools, and gear to do your own gas mixing and maintenance. I would imagine that you invested a great deal of time and money into that.

You don't need much in the way of tools to work on regs. The "certs" are a joke but once you're not a dealer anymore you have to go underground for parts anyway.

Aside from the compressor it doesn't cost that much to get set up for partial pressure gas mixing.

 

[diverbrian]

You lost me. You're cleaning the tanks but the tech wants the valves to pack them with something? Cleaning the tanks takes way longer than cleaning the valves. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something but it sounds like you should check into what they're doing with the valves.

You don't need much in the way of tools to work on regs. The "certs" are a joke but once you're not a dealer anymore you have to go underground for parts anyway.

Aside from the compressor it doesn't cost that much to get set up for partial pressure gas mixing.

You are correct, but there is kind of a "backwards customer service" here. My work is last priority as they need to impress new customers and I am part-time staff so they don't need to impress me. I happen to agree with this philosphy as I won't have any classes to assist if they don't get new customers. As you already know, the dive shop business is a "dog eat dog" world. On the other hand, if I had an emergency and needed a reg fixed yesterday, you can bet that it would be done pronto.

It might not take him that long, but Kris is meticulous and has to have everything just right to do any work. (Hence the reason for only one tech, don't EVEN think about touching one of Kris' tools. He is much as I would imagine you to be about his work. If it isn't perfectly done, it isn't good enough.) My valves will probably fall behind a new student's (think---> new customer) reg/new gear and it will likely take him a couple of days to get to it.

I am doing the tanks as Kris doesn't have time to do four steel tanks in addition to the valves in addition to running the store and doing all of the gear maintenance on the class/rental gear with the other customer's maintenance needs. He figures that I can't screw THAT up, LOL! Or if I do, he will catch it when he actually does the visual.

 

[pipedope]

I agree that the "stop, breath, think and act" is a behavior that applies to not only all diving but many other activities as well.

I usually put it;

1. Breathe
2. Stop
3. Breathe
4. Think
5. Breathe
6. Act
7. Breathe
Repeat 1-7

 

[wedivebc]

I am a member of a military dive club who's constitution states that members may not conduct 'technical' dives. This leads to a very open interpretation of 'tech' and I would like some opinions from the experts of whats defines tech in very simple terms so I can present this information to the club executive. Of most concern is equipment and style of diving.
Can you folks comment on things such as:
Doubles, nitrox mix, lift bags , reels, decompression. This information is to be presented to a comittee of recreational divers so lets keep the comments general.

thanks,

 

[Diver0001]

I am a member of a military dive club who's constitution states that members may not conduct 'technical' dives. This leads to a very open interpretation of 'tech' and I would like some opinions from the experts of whats defines tech in very simple terms so I can present this information to the club executive. Of most concern is equipment and style of diving.
Can you folks comment on things such as:
Doubles, nitrox mix, lift bags , reels, decompression. This information is to be presented to a comittee of recreational divers so lets keep the comments general.

thanks,

This has been covered before and there were some excellent definitions as I recall.

In my mind you go over the line from rec to tek when you dive outside of the normal recreational boundaries (within NDL's and not deeper than 40 meters) or when you enter any kind of overhead such as a cave, the inside of a wreck and so forth.

But as I said take a look in the archives.

R..

 

[Mako Mark]

There was a very good thread on this about a month ago, do the search.

I still stand by my definition that it is when you have to buy a truck because you dive gear wont fit in you car anymore.

 

[roakey]

I still stand by my definition that it is when you have to buy a truck because you dive gear wont fit in you car anymore.

Now there's a good one!

Like this? http://www.scubaboard.com/t55749.html

Roak