Definition of "Open Water?"

[seaducer]

Certainly, nothing in the AOW course, or even the actual wreck specialty remotely comes close to teaching how to safely penetrate a wreck. I cannot speak to the PADI specialty, mine was from SDI, but the Adventure Dive is more an introduction to the points of diving around a wreck, what to look for, look out for, how to find more information. The specialty gives more time to each topic, and if you are interested in wrecks it is not a bad course to take. It really is going to be another of those courses where the instructor makes all the difference. Mine was taught by one of the most accomplished wreck divers today, and the stories alone made the class worth 10 times what was charged.

 

[Mike Boswell]

You're getting confused. I'm got. padi AOW book chapter WRECK DIVING.... page 356. "Your Wreck Adventure Dive may be credited (at the instructor's discretion) toward the PADI Wreck Diver Specialty certification. In addition to what you've learned in this section and will practice on the Wreck Adventure Dive, the PADI Wreck Diver Specialty course includes: Penetration techniques. Wreck mapping. Origin of wreck diving laws. Researching wrecks"....page 352 "The techniques for shipwreck penetration are beyond the scope of this section"....page 350 "Don't swim under anything that could fall on you." Lucky me. I don't think I did a Wreck Adventure Dive, maybe I did and it just wasn't very adventurous....page 353 "Obviously entering wrecks is an activity reserved for those trained and equipped to handle these hazards. If you find that wreck penetration is something you have an interest in, enrolling in a PADI Wreck Diver Specialty course can teach you the techniques for limited, recreational penetration wreck dives. Ask your instructor specifically about wreck penetration and whether you make such a dive in the course (it's optional)." What are instructor's or students responsibilities after having read this piffle.

I wonder what they're trying to say?
Are they just condoning wreck foreplay?
"Dive a wreck, but only scenic"?
Or maybe, PADI's schizophrenic?

 

[captndale]

Certainly, nothing in the AOW course, or even the actual wreck specialty remotely comes close to teaching how to safely penetrate a wreck. I cannot speak to the PADI specialty, mine was from SDI, but the Adventure Dive is more an introduction to the points of diving around a wreck, what to look for, look out for, how to find more information. The specialty gives more time to each topic, and if you are interested in wrecks it is not a bad course to take. It really is going to be another of those courses where the instructor makes all the difference. Mine was taught by one of the most accomplished wreck divers today, and the stories alone made the class worth 10 times what was charged.

The name of the course, "Open Water Diver" has nothing to do with the fact that the students are being taught to dive in an environment with no overhead obstruction. The name was picked for marketing reasons to differentiate the entry-level course with four open water dives from the previous standard course with only two open water dives. The former course was called "Scuba Diver." The new course was named "Open Water Diver" implying that a diver having only two check-out dives was a "Pool Diver." The two courses co-existed for a number of years, with instructors and/or students having the option of which certification to obtain.

Now the course name, "Scuba Diver" is back. Unfortunately, it applies to a course that is not much more that a try-scuba experience. I believe it does a great disservice to those who still carry "Scuba Diver" cards from the days in which that meant a rigorous and comprehensive 12 week course.

 

[rollerboi]

About the only thing that was new (other than nicer gauge consoles, BCs, and aluminum tanks) was the instructor suggested I add a couple more pounds of weight to improve my swimming position on the surface. I've read many threads here about buoyancy control and DIR and I wonder if anyone is having fun any more.

Wait, what? Not sure I get what you're saying. I have a lot more fun on my dives when my buoyancy and my trim are dialed in.. (and don't see where DIR comes into this other than these divers emphasize control of buoyancy and trim..)

 

[JamesBon92007]

Just from the little I've read about DIR it sounds like the divers are spending all their time, effort, and attention on floating around in a perfectly horizontal, neutrally bouyant position and have would never think of using their fins for ascent/descent. It was not meant to be a criticism, just an observation. Well, I guess if that's what they are actually doing then it could be considered a criticism as far as having fun goes. But I suppose for some people that might be "fun."

 

[seaducer]

Just from the little I've read about DIR it sounds like the divers are spending all their time, effort, and attention on floating around in a perfectly horizontal, neutrally bouyant position and have would never think of using their fins for ascent/descent. It was not meant to be a criticism, just an observation. Well, I guess if that's what they are actually doing then it could be considered a criticism as far as having fun goes. But I suppose for some people that might be "fun."

Well I am not DIR by any stretch of imagination, however a little practice and for the most part nuetral bouyancy is second nature, don't really have to think about it. And since I am not needing to fiddle constantly with my inflator to keep from plowing the bottom or shooting to the surface, I have more fun, cause I can concentrate on what I am down there to do. Being horizontal means less energy needed to move around, so I am less tired after dives as well.

And being able to control your bouyancy and positioning in the water is something every diver needs to be good at. However you get there (DIR orwhatever) is not important...

 

[muddiver]

I figured I'd find out sooner or later so I never asked but so far it has not happened. What, exactly, is the definition of "open water?" I was certified in 1969 by NAUI and about all they offered was "Basic Scuba" and "Instructor." My basic course included some beach dives but no boat dive. Personally I think it requires more skill to get in and out of the surf than to jump off a boat. I have seen divers at the beach who could not make it through the surf and I assumed they took an more advanced (i.e. expensive) class where they only dived from a boat. So, considering when I took the class, might it be considered "Open Water", "Advanced Open Water", or simply "Basic?" When we received our C-Card we were supposedly capable of diving in various ocean conditions to depths of 120' and able to deal with many situations that might arise.

Nope, scuba certification is not what it use to be.

My understanding of the PADI Open Water designation is that the diver is trained to dive in waters, similar to that which they were trained in, that are not confined like a pool, are reccomended to stay within the No Decompression limits, diving to a maximum depth of 130 feet sea water using only air as a breathing gas with no overhead obstructions between the diver and the surface.

This has gotten streached to "don't dive deeper than 60 feet deep" do promote Advanced Open Water Diver certification.

Why PADI came up with the Scuba Diver classification is beyond me. May be they were trying to get a grasp of the Resort Diver courses that are nothing more than a Discover Diving activity that provides no certification.

This might sound silly but is there a NON-Open Water certification? I mean, can someone get a "Swimming Pool" certification? No wonder I'm having touble understanding this certification-level business. Presumably someone would be required to get an OW certification before they can get a Cave Diving cert.

Yes there is a Pool Diver certification. It was primarily designated for divers that have benn trained in the 120 foot deep pool in Denmark. It looks pretty awsome, but I have never been there. I also can not remember the name of the place.

Just from the little I've read about DIR it sounds like the divers are spending all their time, effort, and attention on floating around in a perfectly horizontal, neutrally bouyant position and have would never think of using their fins for ascent/descent. It was not meant to be a criticism, just an observation. Well, I guess if that's what they are actually doing then it could be considered a criticism as far as having fun goes. But I suppose for some people that might be "fun."

DIR is a variation that spun off from the cave diving community where rock solid buoyancy while in a horizontal position is paramount. How it applies to the rest of the recreational scuba community is questionable in my opinion. Good buoyancy control is an important skill, but hovering while splayed out flat is not necessarily the only mode of diving for every situation. Number one being your ascent and descant which most certification agencies train students to do in a head up position.

 

[franny]

Certainly, nothing in the AOW course, or even the actual wreck specialty remotely comes close to teaching how to safely penetrate a wreck. I cannot speak to the PADI specialty, mine was from SDI, but the Adventure Dive is more an introduction to the points of diving around a wreck, what to look for, look out for, how to find more information. The specialty gives more time to each topic, and if you are interested in wrecks it is not a bad course to take. It really is going to be another of those courses where the instructor makes all the difference. Mine was taught by one of the most accomplished wreck divers today, and the stories alone made the class worth 10 times what was charged.

At the moment I am doing the theory for the PADI course.
The PADI course does allow penetration within 4 limits

1) Edge of the light zone
2) Linear distance of 40M/130 ft
3) 1/3 of your air supply
4) not into a space to narrow for two divers to pass together.

My understanding is that you have to do the specialty, they aren't supposed to let you penetrate on the AOW (as you need extra training), I also believe it's the forth dive where you get to penetrate the wreck (insert baseball euphemism for the yanks) . My POV is that it's great diving wrecks, but you want to be fully able to enjoy the wreck by being able to look inside it, so being able to penetrate a wreck is part of the fun.