Deep Diving

[Jimmer]

Starboard, if I had to wager a guess, I'd think a lot of it was the comment "you need to go DIR". I'm not saying DIR doesn't have their excellent points, but they are far from the one and only way in this sport.

 

[Starboard Tack]

Starboard, if I had to wager a guess, I'd think a lot of it was the comment "you need to go DIR". I'm not saying DIR doesn't have their excellent points, but they are far from the one and only way in this sport.

10-4. I agree that they are not the only way, only that for the type of diving Thrillhouse seems to want to do, they are IMO the best for that type of diving. Looking back at the thread I didn't complete my thought about DIR divers themselves. I said they are cocky, arrogant, and abrasive, I left out the part about knowing their niche of the sport very well. Also, I'm not advocating any agency or brand, only the philiosophy of DIR for deep diving.

 

[Jimmer]

Fair enough, I dive a DIR style rig, bp/w, long hose, etc, but planning on going though TDI/IANTD for my tech training mostly because of convenience in this area, but I wouldn't mind considering a DIR course if I had the time and money at some point.

 

[Starboard Tack]

I think I figured out what got NWGrateful and Aleman riled up. Guys, don't be so thin-skinned. When I said DIR is Doing It Right, I was explaining the acronym for Thrillhouse, not putting down any other type of diving. Like I said, I don't dive DIR. It isn't appropriate or necessary for the diving I do. I dive with guys who live and breathe DIR and I am impressed with their depth of knowlege and their dedication to the minutiae involved in that branch of this sport.

 

[Diver0001]

Hey Rob - I've seen a lot of your posts and respect your opinon but I think Thrillhouse will be headed for the formula 1 as fast as he thinks he can get there. Yes he was candid about the bouyancy problems he had on his night dive. I think you'd agree that a new diver with buoyancy issues electing to night dive probably didn't make the best choice.
It wasn't my intent to embarass Thrillhouse and i'll agree in hind sight that the insurance quip was over the line. I'm generally the last guy to try and protect people from themselves but between his handle and his threads so far this guy un-nerved me a little. I hope you are right.

I'm happy to hear that you didn't intend to embarass him.

I hope you're wrong that he's aiming to go as deep as he can as fast as he can. I can see too that he has some skills issues. My issue with the tone of your post was that while is someone (in this case you but it could have been anyone) has a lot of good advice to offer s newbie like this, it's inappropriate to just shoot them down. That's not constructive. You could have thought of 10 constructive suggestions but you told him buy insurance, which is like saying "you're hopeless and there's nothing you can do about it". I strongly feel that we should be giving people who need it better messages than that... in that sense, I liked Nemrod's post too. He's prone to embellishment but his message was clear "deep diving is dangerous. You need a lot of training and experience and you're not ready". A few others chimed in on the same theme. All good stuff.

For the record, I read his posts differently. What I'm reading is a highly enthousiastic beginner with buoyancy issues that he knows he has and a *fantasy* (as opposed to a plan) of going deeper. (Thrilldiver, this is a good point for you to jump back in and lay it out from your point of view for us)

Also, I think I can put his fantasy in context a bit for you. (now I'm speculating so I hope that Thrill-guy checks in again). One of the most common training locations for new divers in Vancouver is a place called Whytecliff park. On one side of the bay there's a spot (very likely what he's seeing) where the bottom slopes off sharply to about 45 meters (+/- 150ft) and then drops off to 119 (+/- 390ft) before leveling out at something like 200 meters (650+). When you're swimming along that part, even if it's at 50ft you just can't avoid wondering what's down there, having some fantasies about just taking the plung and thinking (especially as a beginner with buoyancy issues) about what would happen if you started slipping in. Moreover, it's quite possible that he's seen some technical divers in the same location and that's only going to increase his "wow" feeling.

For what it's worth, that's what i thought.

R..

 

[Diver0001]

Hey Thrillhouse. A lot of these guys are trying to scare you out of diving deep. They make good points even when they are doing it tongue-in-cheek. ---etc etc, bad advice clipped --- .

Caveat emptor. Thrillhouse I believe you need beter advice than this right now.

Let me give it a go (in order of priority):

1) fantasing about deep diving is fine but you're simply not ready yet. Your buoyancy control is a major issue.
2) You need to get some specific help on controlling your drysuit and buoyancy. There are some specialties you can take for this but the main thing isn't *how* you get that help but *that* you get the help. You're on the wrong side of the leash at the moment and you need to concentrate on *just* that right now.
3) Limit yourself to 18metres (60ft) for the moment and just make as many dives as you can.

R..

 

[Tonio Anastasi]

I have been to 100 Ft. and unless you get narced You will not know the difference in 100Ft. and 30Ft. Alhough that is just my opinion. But as for going deep I love to read about it and read stories about the guys who have gone deep. But me I will probably never go past 130 Ft.

The biggest differences,are
1) Many people will not know that they are narked, not a good thing to happen at any depth
2)the most important, is not the fact of going deep. Its how deep 100ft actually is.
We do not have a perception, a measure of how deep 100ft actually is.

I dive an average depth of 91ft with guest/clients and often dive to over 133ft on air with my instructor buddies on pleasure dives.
I stood underneath a 133ft high crane once, to get a measure of height. It was an eye opener.

I did the same thing for the 20ft. which is the depth I go to with Discover Scuba Diving.

20ft, 100ft 133ft. They are all a long way up, if you are in one of thoses unlikely events that should not happen.

 

[Tonio Anastasi]

If I can share this with you to maybe put deep diving in perspective, particularly for the least experienced divers.
A couple of years ago. I and two instructor freinds of mine planned to do a dive to 193ft to explore a submarine.
We planned a no penetration, exploratory box dive with a max BT head down to starting the ascent of 12mins.
Conditions here are good. Viz even at these depths is normally more then 100ft.
We got to the peire and while waiting we got the equipment together.
At a certain time we all wandered off to be alone.
We got to the dive site, had a great dive.
When we got back on land and sat down to sahre a coffee and talk the dive.
One of us pointed out as to how nervous he was feeling before the dive.
We all felt the same thing and had the urge to wander off and FOCUS on the dive.
Clear our heads from all the S***.
We were all experienced instructors.
We ALL had logged thousands of dives.
We had all logged many dives to those depths.
Yet, we still had a very healthy respect for what we were about to.
When you are on a shore dive or boat dive, look around you, and at some moment, amidts all the joking about and the chatter and the laughter, you will often see instructors and experienced divers, taking a moment to collect their thoughts, and focus on themselves and the dive.
It is not a big guru moment, where they will levitate or mouth a divers mantra or roll the eyes back.
Looking at them its like they momentarily are on an island to themselves.
Scuba diving is a safe sport, BUT it does have some risks involved.
The deeper you are the greater the potential problems.
Diving, particularly deep diving, (my defenition is 16ft deeper than you have prviously been) should always be taken with a healthy dose of respect.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

No troll. What part do you think I'm uninformed on?

I'll take it point-by-point ...

Hey Thrillhouse. A lot of these guys are trying to scare you out of diving deep. They make good points even when they are doing it tongue-in-cheek.

Some, perhaps ... many of us would rather inform a diver than try to scare him. Many new divers are curious about this stuff. Some get into trouble trying things simply because they don't know any better. "Scaring" people ... especially people who are attracted to "thrill" activities ... only encourages them to do something. It's not a good approach.

If you really want to do it, you need to go DIR. That is what DIR is designed for.

No you don't. No it isn't. DIR has nothing to do with deep diving ... although it is one way to get trained to DO deep diving, it's far from the only way. Nor is DIR or any other agency relevent to this particular topic.

I don't dive DIR myself since I don't do the crazy dives.

There's nothing "crazy" about doing deeper dives ... you just have to be educated about the increased risks, trained in the skills needed to deal with them, experienced enough to handle them, and equipped properly for the needs of the dive profile you're planning. There are no safe shortcuts ... people who take shortcuts invariably get into trouble. Those who make the effort to learn the skills and mindset needed for deep diving are some of the safest divers I know. Deep diving is all about proper planning and preparation ... and that takes knowledge, self-discipline, and some equipment that a typical recreational diver wouldn't be familiar with.

I've had my chamber ride and was lucky I made it there. I don't push limits.

Glad you made it ... perhaps if you related how you got there we could take a better look at what happened, and how you could have avoided it. Might be a relevent way to shed some light on the topic of this thread.

DIR divers are cocky, arrogant, and can be pretty abrasive.

Some are, most aren't. Same can be said for divers trained by NAUI Tech, TDI, IANTD and a host of other agencies. Technical diving tends to attract alpha personalities. It's not an agency-specific issue.

Several of my friends are hardcore DIR. By the way, DIR is Doing It Right.

Irrelevent.

The gear setups folks mentioned are part of this philosophy.

Gear is the least of the DIR approach ... it just happens to be the part that most Internet divers like to talk about. Most tech agencies use similar gear configurations ... NAUI Tech, for example, uses a configuration that is identical to the DIR setup. The major difference is that DIR shows you how to adapt the setup for recreational diving (i.e. for a singles rig).

It isn't for the new diver.

Nonsense ... when I took my first DIR class one of my dive buddies (Lamont) had about 25 dives under his weight belt. I had over 900. Frankly, he did better than me, because he didn't already have some ingrained habits that needed to be retrained, like I did. The "entry-level" DIR stuff is often easier for the newer diver than for the more experienced diver.

You need some time under your belt and some experience with emergencies not to mention tons of training. If you want to go for it, that's what exploration is all about. Just minimize the risks. If you try deep without the correct training, gear, and respect for and knowlege of the hazards, it will kill you, no doubt about it. Take your time.

Assuming that those comments are back on the topic of deep diving .. I agree with you ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Caveat emptor. Thrillhouse I believe you need beter advice than this right now.

Let me give it a go (in order of priority):

1) fantasing about deep diving is fine but you're simply not ready yet. Your buoyancy control is a major issue.
2) You need to get some specific help on controlling your drysuit and buoyancy. There are some specialties you can take for this but the main thing isn't *how* you get that help but *that* you get the help. You're on the wrong side of the leash at the moment and you need to concentrate on *just* that right now.
3) Limit yourself to 18metres (60ft) for the moment and just make as many dives as you can.

R..

Good advice, and straight to the point ... as usual ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)