Deep Diving

[TSandM]

The biggest problem is that, when somebody says, "If you want to go deep, you have to be DIR", everybody reading it assumes that the person writing that IS a DIR diver and has that attitude. At least according to the profile, Starboard Tack has no GUE training, so please, anybody reading this, don't attribute his advice to his having been brainwashed by GUE that it's the only way to do deeper dives.

 

[TomP]

....

For the record, I read his posts differently. What I'm reading is a highly enthousiastic beginner with buoyancy issues that he knows he has and a *fantasy* (as opposed to a plan) of going deeper. (Thrilldiver, this is a good point for you to jump back in and lay it out from your point of view for us)

....
R..

Eye of the beholder I suppose, which accounts for the difference in tone.

I think there is far more evidence in his posts that suggest his fantasies are the priority. Wake-up calls may not be pleasant but that doesn't mean they aren't constructive. As far as the insurance goes, I'm a DAN member and have upgraded insurance. Wrapper aside I think that's good advice.

I absolutely agree that Thrillhouse should weigh in but this is the last I have to say.

 

[drbill]

Initially I dove deep to assess my response to narcosis. I gradually increased my max dive depth until I hit 200 feet which I consider to be my basement depth (although not due to narcosis, just the limit of what I'm willing to do on the gear I dive with and to avoid oxygen toxicity).

I continue diving to such depths only to film what I see down there for an episode on "Deep Ecology" in my local TV show. I like long bottom times to maximize gathering footage, but of course this is not possible given my current profiles, so I have to do multiple dives to these depths to gather enough footage. I still get 50-60 min total dive time doing these profiles, but only 10-15 min of that is spent below 100 feet.

As for doing it for the adrrenaline rush... no thanks. I dive only with a purpose (or is it porpoise?).

 

[verybaddiver]

Even then his comments about DIR completely miss the point, if he was taking GUE as being DIR.

GUE has 50 instructors that can teach fundamentals
GUE has 12 instructors than can teach tech1/cave1 or higher

So to be technically trained by GUE is obvious far harder(location-wise) than to be trained in basic skill refinement(GUE-F). To suggest DIR is purely a tech based agency is to show pure negligence of what GUE is.

 

[Starboard Tack]

Even then his comments about DIR completely miss the point, if he was taking GUE as being DIR.

GUE has 50 instructors that can teach fundamentals
GUE has 12 instructors than can teach tech1/cave1 or higher

So to be technically trained by GUE is obvious far harder(location-wise) than to be trained in basic skill refinement(GUE-F). To suggest DIR is purely a tech based agency is to show pure negligence of what GUE is.

Last time I checked, D. I. R. was not an agency. It is a philosophy towards diving. I know what GUE is. I know what NAUI Tech is. I know that PADI is running a Tech program. I was not taking GUE as being DIR. You gotta love how somebody mentions DIR and everybody gets up in arms. What's killing me is even the GUE and IANTD guys are p***** about this!

 

[verybaddiver]

Well then, why suggest DIR is technical, just because it's root are in a technical environment. DIR is a unification of Pleasure dives, AND more serious ones. Yet you suggest " It isn't for the new diver."

 

[Flightlead]

read "The Last Dive"

 

[TheHobster]

... I know what GUE is. I know what NAUI Tech is. I know that PADI is running a Tech program. I was not taking GUE as being DIR. You gotta love how somebody mentions DIR and everybody gets up in arms. What's killing me is even the GUE and IANTD guys are p***** about this!

well, those of us that have been on boards awhile remember the days a few years ago where GUE/DIR devotees were very evangelistic and everyone else didn't deserve to breathe the same air as them - that is where the antagonism started - fortunately, the attitude has changed as more people have taken DIR-F, and GI 3 has stopped his rants on boards -

DIR is a philosophy of diving, started by the folks that started GUE - it has been embraced by the technical crowd of most, if not all, agencies - DIR is no longer an exclusive term of GUE

 

[Starboard Tack]

I'll take it point-by-point ...


Some, perhaps ... many of us would rather inform a diver than try to scare him. Many new divers are curious about this stuff. Some get into trouble trying things simply because they don't know any better. "Scaring" people ... especially people who are attracted to "thrill" activities ... only encourages them to do something. It's not a good approach.


No you don't. No it isn't. DIR has nothing to do with deep diving ... although it is one way to get trained to DO deep diving, it's far from the only way. Nor is DIR or any other agency relevent to this particular topic.


There's nothing "crazy" about doing deeper dives ... you just have to be educated about the increased risks, trained in the skills needed to deal with them, experienced enough to handle them, and equipped properly for the needs of the dive profile you're planning. There are no safe shortcuts ... people who take shortcuts invariably get into trouble. Those who make the effort to learn the skills and mindset needed for deep diving are some of the safest divers I know. Deep diving is all about proper planning and preparation ... and that takes knowledge, self-discipline, and some equipment that a typical recreational diver wouldn't be familiar with.


Glad you made it ... perhaps if you related how you got there we could take a better look at what happened, and how you could have avoided it. Might be a relevent way to shed some light on the topic of this thread.


Some are, most aren't. Same can be said for divers trained by NAUI Tech, TDI, IANTD and a host of other agencies. Technical diving tends to attract alpha personalities. It's not an agency-specific issue.


Irrelevent.


Gear is the least of the DIR approach ... it just happens to be the part that most Internet divers like to talk about. Most tech agencies use similar gear configurations ... NAUI Tech, for example, uses a configuration that is identical to the DIR setup. The major difference is that DIR shows you how to adapt the setup for recreational diving (i.e. for a singles rig).


Nonsense ... when I took my first DIR class one of my dive buddies (Lamont) had about 25 dives under his weight belt. I had over 900. Frankly, he did better than me, because he didn't already have some ingrained habits that needed to be retrained, like I did. The "entry-level" DIR stuff is often easier for the newer diver than for the more experienced diver.


Assuming that those comments are back on the topic of deep diving .. I agree with you ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

You're killing me, Bob. I started out this reply mad, but I am going to pull back and address it and try to defuse this whole thing. When I suggested DIR to him it wasn't about any particular agency. The gear assembly the DIR guys use is perfect for deep, wreck penetration, and overhead environments. The training in decompression stops, bouancy control, trim, and which gasses to use and when is perfect for the same. I have no experience with NAUI Tech, or frankly the PADI side of this house, but I would guess they are on a par with that of the GUE divers I know and dive with. The attention to detail and forethought that goes into every dive those guys do is perfect for these dives.

As far as deep being crazy, maybe I should have put one of those friggin smilies there. Sorry you took it wrong. Same for the comment on the DIR divers.

You got me on the new diver part. I agree that a new diver can go into the DIR, again philosophy, not agency from the start. He just needs more training before he starts doing deep diving.

As to gear being the least part of the philosophy, I have to disagree. Not trying to get your goat, but from everything I can see and what I know as an outsider, every part of DIR is a part of DIR and you can't take one part out and still be on program.

Again, and I'm going to leave this alone after this I am not recommending one agency or program over another. DIR is usually assosciated with GUE, but that is not my intention. If a diver wants to go deep, tech training (is that better?) and equipment are necessary.

 

[UnderSeaBumbleBee]

Hey Thrillhouse. A lot of these guys are trying to scare you out of diving deep. They make good points even when they are doing it tongue-in-cheek. If you really want to do it, you need to go DIR. That is what DIR is designed for. I don't dive DIR myself since I don't do the crazy dives. I've had my chamber ride and was lucky I made it there. I don't push limits. DIR divers are cocky, arrogant, and can be pretty abrasive. Several of my friends are hardcore DIR. By the way, DIR is Doing It Right. The gear setups folks mentioned are part of this philosophy. It isn't for the new diver. You need some time under your belt and some experience with emergencies not to mention tons of training. If you want to go for it, that's what exploration is all about. Just minimize the risks. If you try deep without the correct training, gear, and respect for and knowlege of the hazards, it will kill you, no doubt about it. Take your time.

Me thinks Starboard is the one as he puts it above that is "cocky, arrogant, and can be pretty abrasive"

I am not DIR but have been curious about the system of gear and school of thought. When I talk to "DIR people" they tell, me that if I can find any other "DIR people" in the area, to work on getting my basic skills solid and form good buddy skills and to find a diver that I think is good diver and have them mentor me even if they are not DIR, I have been told an old salt can teach a newbie a lot.

So here is my advice as a newbie moving toward tech deep diving. Get good OW training. Practice, practice, practice the skills. Dive, dive, dive, and dive some more within the limits of your training. Then get some more training and repeat the above practice and dive routine. Then get a little mor training and repeat the above.

Anybody can dive deep at anytime any day--what sets the trained divers apart is that they can return to the surface alive with no injury after they reach depth. Even with training and good plans, things can still go wrong.