Deep Diver manual or elearning?

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One of the reasons that I recommend Tec40 is the practical aspect of having some experience of going slightly into deco, so that students will know how to handle what to do if they mistakenly exceed NDL while on a recreational dive.

You can still do that in the Deep Diving specialty course as "simulated" decompression stop and use 40% O2 bottle for the simulated deco. (as long as the student is Nitrox certified). If the PADI Tec40 requires training in a technical diving set up, twin tanks with two different regulators etc., this isn't for recreational diving really. The best route is still a deep diving course with a qualified and thorough instructor. There is a fine line between tech. and rec and one isn't necessarily better in place of other without taking things into context. I know that it is "fashionable" to keep hammering the technical side of things (just like BP/W, etc.) but I don't think that this is appropriate nor a good advice.
 
You can still do that in the Deep Diving specialty course as "simulated" decompression stop and use 40% O2 bottle for the simulated deco. (as long as the student is Nitrox certified). If the PADI Tec40 requires training in a technical diving set up, twin tanks with two different regulators etc., this isn't for recreational diving really. The best route still a deep diving course with a qualified and thorough instructor. There is a fine line between tech. and rec and one isn't necessarily better in place of other without taking things into context. I know that it is "fashionable" to keep hammering the technical side of things (just like BP/W, etc.) but I don't think that this is appropriate nor a good advice.
Academically, you can add whatever you want. It just needs to actually make sense. Here are some relevant parts of the standards for the PADI deep course.

Materials and Equipment
Instructor Materials and Equipment
Use the PADI Deep Diver course materials prescriptively to accommodate various sequencing preferences and teaching and learning styles.
Required
• PADI Deep Diver Specialty Course Instructor Guide
• Specialty equipment needed for student divers to perform deep dives.
• Underwater light
• Demonstration items (e.g., puzzles, problems, colored objects or colors painted on a slate)
• Pressure affected items (e.g., ping-pong ball, tennis ball, wet suit materials, etc.)
• Safety equipment (e.g., emergency oxygen; #ag and surface #oat with 6
metre/20 foot weighted line for safety stops with backup air supply attached).
• Emergency backup air supply
Recommended
• PADI Deep Diver Manual. Use the student diver manual for detailed content explanation.
• PADI Deep Diving video
• As needed: Extra backup lights, slates with pencils, compasses, and dive computers for student divers.
Student Diver Materials and Equipment
Recommended
• PADI Deep Diver Manual
• PADI Deep Diving video
• Underwater light
• Slate with pencil
• Dive computer
• Access to support equipment as necessary, including but not limited to: backup lights, slate and pencils, and compasses.

Performance Requirements
By the end of the open water dives, student divers will be able to:
Deep Diver Open Water Dive One
• Execute a descent using a reference as a tactile or visual guide (line, wall or sloping bottom).
• Compare changes in color at the surface and at depth.
• Compare your own depth gauge to your instructor’s and/or other student diver’s depth gauges.
• Use a depth gauge and timing device (or a dive computer with an ascentrate indicator) to measure an ascent rate not to exceed 18 metres/60 feet per minute.
• Perform a 3-minute safety stop at 5 metres/15 feet before surfacing.
Deep Diver Open Water Dive Two
• Execute a “free” descent using a reference line, wall or sloping bottom as a visual guide only.
• Describe and record the changes that occur to three pressure-sensitive items while at depth.
• Perform a navigation swim with a compass away from, and back to, the anchor of the reference line (one diver navigates away from, the other navigates back to, the reference line for a distance of between 10 and 20 kick cycles, depending on visibility).
• Perform an ascent using a reference line, wall or sloping bottom as a visual guide only.
• Use depth gauge and timing device (or a dive computer with ascent-rate indicator) to measure an ascent rate not to exceed 18 metres/60 feet per minute.
• Perform a 3-minute safety stop at 5 metres/15 feet before surfacing without physically holding on to a reference line for positioning.
Deep Diver Open Water Dive Three
• Execute a descent using a reference as a tactile or visual guide (line, wall or sloping bottom).
• Compare the amount of time needed to complete a task on the surface and at depth.
• Perform an ascent using a reference as a tactile or visual guide (line, wall or sloping bottom).
• Use a depth gauge and timing device (or a dive computer with ascentrate indicator) to measure an ascent rate not to exceed 18 metres/60 feet per minute.
• Perform an 8-minute simulated emergency decompression stop at 5 metres/15 feet before surfacing, while breathing from an emergency air source for at least one minute of the total time.
Deep Diver Open Water Dive Four
• Execute a descent using a reference as a tactile or visual guide (line, wall or sloping bottom).
• Complete an underwater tour of the area.
• Perform an ascent using a reference as a tactile or visual guide (line, wall or sloping bottom).
• Use your depth gauge and timing device (or a dive computer with ascentrate indicator) to measure an ascent rate not to exceed 18 metres/60 feet per minute.
• Perform a 3-minute safety stop at 5 metres/15 feet before surfacing.

I find the performance requirements to be underwhelming, though some have expressed their experience as positive.

I believe in the idea of training to beyond a level in which I dive. For recreational divers, I believe Tec40 will help them dive more safely during recreational dives as their awareness will be dramatically increased.
 
I find the performance requirements to be underwhelming, though some have expressed their experience as positive.

You are an instructor who has been diving for a while, it will be underwhelming for you just like if you had to read an OW textbook or go thru OW eLearning. You need to look at it from a recreational diver point of view in this respect. I am not a PADI instructor so I can't comment here but I am familiar with NAUI's program and I find it very good for recreational diving and even better when you add to it more dives and more skills as NAUI encourages the instructor to exceed the minimums (within reason and without violating the respective limits set for each course; time, depth, deco, etc.).


I believe in the idea of training to beyond a level in which I dive. For recreational divers, I believe Tec40 will help them dive more safely during recreational dives as their awareness will be dramatically increased.
I am sure that it will add more skills and knowledge to the diver but the issue here is sequence and what is needed for the diver to do the type of diving he wants to do. I just find the idea of always pushing "technical" courses for people who aren't really looking for doing do technical diving or aren't able to meet the experience, training and financial requirements is a disservice. It seems that people here want everyone to just sign up for a "Funndies" course right after their OW course and keep on taking technical diving courses which is wrong and not a good advice.
 
You are an instructor who has been diving for a while, it will be underwhelming for you just like if you had to read an OW textbook or go thru OW eLearning. You need to look at it from a recreational diver point of view in this respect. I am not a PADI instructor so I can't comment here but I am familiar with NAUI's program and I find it very good for recreational diving and even better when you add to it more dives and more skills as NAUI encourages the instructor to exceed the minimums (within reason and without violating the respective limits set for each course; time, depth, deco, etc.).

I am sure that it will add more skills and knowledge to the diver but the issue here is sequence and what is needed for the diver to do the type of diving he wants to do. I just find the idea of always pushing "technical" courses for people who aren't really looking for doing do technical diving or aren't able to meet the experience, training and financial requirements is a disservice. It seems that people here want everyone to just sign up for a "Funndies" course right after their OW course and keep on taking technical diving courses which is wrong and not a good advice.

I really wish you'd stop misrepresenting things. First, GUE fundies is NOT a technical diving course. It is a recreational one and a gatekeeper to GUE's first technical course, T1. Second, I'm not advocating for recreational divers to take technical diving course after technical diving course. I do recommend an entry level technical diving course for serious recreational divers. Most people on SB are serious about diving. I don't think there are many seahorses that follow DMs make it here (but I could be wrong). I wouldn't bother recommending to seahorses Human Factors in diving. But I do recommend this for serious divers and above. Third, I when I started out, I really didn't get much out of the courses I took. The performance requirements are kind of a joke and there was a tendency of instructors to tick off boxes. It wasn't until I was introduced to courses like fundies, even Tec40, did I see the possibility of a significant improvement in skills. And fourth, open water course material is not underwhelming, as I do go back and review my own agencies' materials as well as other agencies in order to wrap my head around all the material that they need to learn. I don't care what agency one teaches for, open water is generally drinking from a fire hose.

TL;DR: you're too presumptuous.

Edit: I don't want have this back and forth with you really as Brandolini's law is at play, and I don't have time for that.
 
GUE fundies is NOT a technical diving course. It is a recreational one and a gatekeeper to GUE's first technical course, T

So it isn't a "technical diving" course but a "gatekeeper" to technical course? Don't you find this as nonsense?

I won't respond to the rest of your post because it is just not here or there to say the least.
 
So it isn't a "technical diving" course but a "gatekeeper" to technical course? Don't you find this as nonsense?

I won't respond to the rest of your post because it is just not here or there to say the least.
No. Because it.is all about recreational skills. You need proper recreational skills before starting technical dive training or the instructor has to do remedial training. That's precisely why AG created fundies.

This isn't a hard concept. You've been around more than long enough to know this.
 
You can still do that in the Deep Diving specialty course as "simulated" decompression stop and use 40% O2 bottle for the simulated deco. (as long as the student is Nitrox certified). If the PADI Tec40 requires training in a technical diving set up, twin tanks with two different regulators etc., this isn't for recreational diving really. The best route still a deep diving course with a qualified and thorough instructor. There is a fine line between tech. and rec and one isn't necessarily better in place of other without taking things into context. I know that it is "fashionable" to keep hammering the technical side of things (just like BP/W, etc.) but I don't think that this is appropriate nor a good advice.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the PADI Tec40 course does not require a standard technical rig. You can show up with a Scubapro Stab Jacket, AL80, and a pony bottle and take the course. You do not need a set of doubles or a side mount configuration.

• A single cylinder with single outlet valve and a pony bottle. Pony bottle should have same gas as main cylinder, or be breathable at the deepest planned dive depth. The minimum size cylinder is one with a free gas capacity of 850 litres/30 cubic feet.
• BCD with D-rings or other attachment points for a stage/deco cylinder.
 
As I mentioned in an earlier post, the PADI Tec40 course does not require a standard technical rig. You can show up with a Scubapro Stab Jacket, AL80, and a pony bottle and take the course. You do not need a set of doubles or a side mount configuration.

• A single cylinder with single outlet valve and a pony bottle. Pony bottle should have same gas as main cylinder, or be breathable at the deepest planned dive depth. The minimum size cylinder is one with a free gas capacity of 850 litres/30 cubic feet.
• BCD with D-rings or other attachment points for a stage/deco cylinder.

So it is a round about way to get around recreational diving rules of no exceeding NDL and no deco. by adding "tec" prefix to the course's name. How "PADI" of them.
 
Q: What is technical about GUE Fundamentals?

A: Nothing

It is a course limited to 30m/100' with no decompression and, aside from Nitrox32, has no mixed gas. It concentrates on core skills (finning, trim, buoyancy) is mainly done on a 6m/20' platform and develops skills such as donation, shutdowns (if done with a twinset) and general skills.

A pass is given in two grades: a recreational pass and a "technical" pass where the student scored more highly in the dozen or so assessments during the course.

GUE require a technical pass as an entry level into their technical courses.


Personally I wish other agencies would offer this course and use it as the minimum standard for instructors and other "pros".
 
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