deep air

[cfenton]

Enter a friend by the name of Lyle Griffith. His Dad was extremely wealthy (owning a company in the defense avionics industry). On his 16th birthday Lyle was given a new Ferrari.

Not everyone could be like Lyle. Thinking about it I felt sorry for him, as he never got to appreciate some of the more simple things in life that I did. I eventually owned a Corvette and a Porsche, but where was there to go for Lyle?

I'm sorry, but I have to call BS on this one. If you could have had a Ferrari you would have taken it in a heart beat! So would any other rational person. It's like when fat people call themselves big boned, it's just something they say to make themselves feel better about their circumstances.

Diving deep on air is more personally fulfilling. That's a new one for me.

The OP has an opinion that was shared by everyone in the recreational diving community not that long ago, not to mention the military and the commercial diving field. This was to "learn the air envelope before moving on to another gas." There is some wisdom to this.

I fail to see the logic behind this proposed wisdom. I personally chose never to dive a gas beyond an END of 100'. How is my learning to manage narcosis going to benefit me in my diving? Narcosis management is a non issue, I really can't see a plausible scenario where I would ever need to manage narcosis (except for diving in a remote location where getting helium is exceedingly difficult). It's definitely the easy way to do things, as you say, but I really can't see how that could be a bad thing in this case.

 

[DCBC]

I'm sorry, but I have to call BS on this one. If you could have had a Ferrari you would have taken it in a heart beat! So would any other rational person. It's like when fat people call themselves big boned, it's just something they say to make themselves feel better about their circumstances.

Looking back on it, I don't think I would. Oh, I like the idea of it, but gas and insurance would just too much; I'd worry about it being stolen or damaged. Lyle ended up borrowing his Mom's GTO, as he told me "My Dad will kill me if I damage this car!" In life there is a price for everything. All that glitters is not gold.

Diving deep on air is more personally fulfilling. That's a new one for me.

No problem, I'm glad you could benefit from this.

Narcosis management is a non issue, I really can't see a plausible scenario where I would ever need to manage narcosis (except for diving in a remote location where getting helium is exceedingly difficult). It's definitely the easy way to do things, as you say, but I really can't see how that could be a bad thing in this case.

No problem. As I said to each there own. It's good to see that your not throwing stones at others who walk a different path.

 

[cfenton]

Looking back on it, I don't think I would. Oh, I like the idea of it, but gas and insurance would just too much; I'd worry about it being stolen or damaged. Lyle ended up borrowing his Mom's GTO, as he told me "My Dad will kill me if I damage this car!" In life there is a price for everything. All that glitters is not gold.

That's not the 16 year old in you talking. I would take the Ferrari

No problem, I'm glad you could benefit from this.

No problem. As I said to each there own. It's good to see that your not throwing stones at others who walk a different path.

I can honestly say that I don't have any problem with other peoples decision to dive deep air. It does not affect me. I can understand people deciding to use air for cost or logistic reasons. Hell, I even kinda understand if that's how people get their kicks.

But, I don't understand the logic behind people saying that learning to dive deep air before moving to trimix is wise. The logic just doesn't stand up from my perspective. There is no NEED to ever be narcd, so their is no NEED to learn to manage it. Somebody as experienced as yourself making that statement in 2009, I find mind boggling.

 

[DCBC]

There is no NEED to ever be narcd, so their is no NEED to learn to manage it. Somebody as experienced as yourself making that statement in 2009, I find mind boggling.

I can understand why you feel this way. It is a recreational perspective that is founded in the total confidence of always having the perfect mixture available.

As a professional diver, I have experienced nitrogen narcosis on trimix (a gas pusher error), I've oxtoxed, have experienced HPNS, CO2 excess, blacking-out for a number of reasons while at pressure. You dive long enough professionally, all sorts of things are bound to happen. Being able to maintain composure and act appropriately when your mental faculties are failing has saved my life. Learning to deal with an improper mixture has been valuable at depth.

As you are a recreational diver and are guaranteed never to run into any of these problems, I agree you will never have any need to develop these skills. If you ever are, you will be unprepared. I wish you luck.

 

[Thalassamania]

I fail to see the logic behind this proposed wisdom. I personally chose never to dive a gas beyond an END of 100'. How is my learning to manage narcosis going to benefit me in my diving? Narcosis management is a non issue, I really can't see a plausible scenario where I would ever need to manage narcosis (except for diving in a remote location where getting helium is exceedingly difficult). It's definitely the easy way to do things, as you say, but I really can't see how that could be a bad thing in this case.

I can understand why you feel this way. It is a recreational perspective that is founded in the total confidence of always having the perfect mixture available.

That's what they don't understand, you can't just whistle up a bottle of mix in a lot of places.

As a professional diver, I have experienced nitrogen narcosis on trimix (a gas pusher error), I've oxtoxed, have experienced HPNS, CO2 excess, blacking-out for a number of reasons while at pressure. You dive long enough professionally, all sorts of things are bound to happen. Being able to maintain composure and act appropriately when your mental faculties are failing has saved my life. Learning to deal with an improper mixture has been valuable at depth.

As you are a recreational diver and are guaranteed never to run into any of these problems, I agree you will never have any need to develop these skills. If you ever are, you will be unprepared. I wish you luck.

Quite right.

 

[JeffG]

Being able to maintain composure and act appropriately when your mental faculties are failing has saved my life. Learning to deal with an improper mixture has been valuable at depth.

Which is very different from the concept of teaching Deep Air to divers, where the "proper" mixture is Air.

 

[Thalassamania]

Whenever I teach "Deep Air" (which I don't actually teach as a course, per se) it is more a course in Deeper Diving. Using air (at whatever depth you see as deep) is just one tool in the box, not always the best, not always what you'd like, but then we've all used a pair of pliers when a deep-well socket with a universal and a ratchet would have worked better, no?

 

[Scott L]

That's what they don't understand, you can't just whistle up a bottle of mix in a lot of places.

 

[cfenton]

As a professional diver, I have experienced nitrogen narcosis on trimix (a gas pusher error), I've oxtoxed, have experienced HPNS, CO2 excess, blacking-out for a number of reasons while at pressure. You dive long enough professionally, all sorts of things are bound to happen. Being able to maintain composure and act appropriately when your mental faculties are failing has saved my life. Learning to deal with an improper mixture has been valuable at depth.

As you are a recreational diver and are guaranteed never to run into any of these problems, I agree you will never have any need to develop these skills. If you ever are, you will be unprepared. I wish you luck.

Thanks - point taken.

This is a "Technical Diving Specialties" board. Which assumed to mean recreational diving.

 

[boomx5]

I should start my own deep air thread...they are so entertaining. :cool2: