deep air

[SurDo2]

Hear, Hear...

 

[LiteHedded]

When I was growing-up I saved for a car, finally purchasing a used Epic for $600. I loved cars and like many 17 year old boys, I had visions of one day owning a Corvette or a Porsche. My Father told me to always hold on to my dreams and maybe one day I could afford one.

Enter a friend by the name of Lyle Griffith. His Dad was extremely wealthy (owning a company in the defense avionics industry). On his 16th birthday Lyle was given a new Ferrari.

Not everyone could be like Lyle. Thinking about it I felt sorry for him, as he never got to appreciate some of the more simple things in life that I did. I eventually owned a Corvette and a Porsche, but where was there to go for Lyle?

Historically, people would progress in diving through experience. A CCR and Trimix is like Lyle's Ferrari. There is a whole world to explore with air. Progression of experience can make deep air relatively safe. Sure it requires more dedication and planning than a routine Trimix or Heliox dive to the same depth, but that is the challenge.

Don't think it's about saving the $80 (although not everyone has that amount of money available to spend on gas). It's about doing the dive safely without the need for special mixtures and equipment. Relying on your ability to concentrate, keeping calm when facing the fear (that will inevitably present itself) and accomplishing the dive despite narcosis.

I understand however some people like Lyle can afford to bypass this experience. They sometimes simply choose an easier way. The easy way however, is not always the most personally fulfilling experience.

I have unlimited amounts of mixed-gas available to me at no personal cost. I often choose to dive deep air. It's not about saving money on a fill.

yea. it's about the 'macho factor'.

 

[Heavy water]

:devious:DCBC You have a way with words! To each his own, why argue about, just do it!!!!:vintagediver::

 

[ucfdiver]

When I was growing-up I saved for a car, finally purchasing a used Epic for $600. I loved cars and like many 17 year old boys, I had visions of one day owning a Corvette or a Porsche. My Father told me to always hold on to my dreams and maybe one day I could afford one.

Enter a friend by the name of Lyle Griffith. His Dad was extremely wealthy (owning a company in the defense avionics industry). On his 16th birthday Lyle was given a new Ferrari.

Not everyone could be like Lyle. Thinking about it I felt sorry for him, as he never got to appreciate some of the more simple things in life that I did. I eventually owned a Corvette and a Porsche, but where was there to go for Lyle?

Historically, people would progress in diving through experience. A CCR and Trimix is like Lyle's Ferrari. There is a whole world to explore with air. Progression of experience can make deep air relatively safe. Sure it requires more dedication and planning than a routine Trimix or Heliox dive to the same depth, but that is the challenge.

Don't think it's about saving the $80 (although not everyone has that amount of money available to spend on gas). It's about doing the dive safely without the need for special mixtures and equipment. Relying on your ability to concentrate, keeping calm when facing the fear (that will inevitably present itself) and accomplishing the dive despite narcosis.

I understand however some people like Lyle can afford to bypass this experience. They sometimes simply choose an easier way. The easy way however, is not always the most personally fulfilling experience.

I have unlimited amounts of mixed-gas available to me at no personal cost. I often choose to dive deep air. It's not about saving money on a fill.

Now meet the guy who died at Eagles Nest a few weeks back on an unacceptable END. Not quite the warm and fuzzy story about little Johnny growing up and one day owning a Vette'.

Diving is a luxury for most everyone on this board. I see no reason to push END, ppo2, or any well accepted limit within the industry, there's always tomorrow, next month, or next year.

If you think I'm someone who has an unlimited amount of money to spend on diving, you're very wrong. I'm a college student and pay most all of my own bills. I just don't see anything underwater that can't wait until my next paycheck to see, that's all.

 

[Thalassamania]

For DCBC and I (at least) diving is not a "luxury."

Here are two "well accepted" limits:

• the 130 ft "recreational depth limit."
• the 190 ft "scientific diving community depth limit."

Where do they come from? Do either of these limits stem from an evaluation or consideration of narcosis, or oxtox?

 

[Blackwood]

Not everyone could be like Lyle. Thinking about it I felt sorry for him, as he never got to appreciate some of the more simple things in life that I did. I eventually owned a Corvette and a Porsche, but where was there to go for Lyle?

McLaren, Bugatti... Gulfstream

• the 190 ft "scientific diving community depth limit."

Quick question. I've seen you mention that a few times, and have always wondered if that's the limit for diving air or an absolute maximum regardless of breathing gas? If the later, what standards do you use when the environment you wish to study is deeper?

Or is it 190 feet deeper than equilibrium (i.e. if you have a bell or other facility, you can do its depth + 190)?

 

[DCBC]

I see no reason to push END, ppo2, or any well accepted limit within the industry, there's always tomorrow, next month, or next year.

I don't push anything other than myself. If you knew me better, you would have a better understanding of the scope of my experience. Like everyone, I built this one hour at a time over a long period. I started as a recreational diver and although it became my occupation, I continue to teach and dive for recreation.

What's bothering me here is an attitude that it's somehow wrong for diving deeper on air before moving on to Trimix. Somehow people think that breathing a gas different from air is somehow difficult? The OP has an opinion that was shared by everyone in the recreational diving community not that long ago, not to mention the military and the commercial diving field. This was to "learn the air envelope before moving on to another gas." There is some wisdom to this.

Not only has this been lost, but I've seen stones thrown on SB because someone posts anything on deep air. But of course everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

[Thalassamania]

McLaren, Bugatti... Gulfstream



Quick question. I've seen you mention that a few times, and have always wondered if that's the limit for diving air or an absolute maximum regardless of breathing gas? If the later, what standards do you use when the environment you wish to study is deeper?

Or is it 190 feet deeper than equilibrium (i.e. if you have a bell or other facility, you can do its depth + 190)?

First you need to answer the initial question, "why the 190 ft. limit?" The reason is that at 190 you go off the well tested Standard Air Tables onto the less well tested Exceptional Exposure Tables. Typically the Standard Air Tables are the only tables that have blanket approval for routine use. So dives that are off the Standard Air Tables require specific approval by the institution's Diving Control Board. That's the historic basis.

 

[Blackwood]

So going a little further, say you've selected a gas other than air, but the dives are shallower than 190 feet.

Since you aren't (presumably) using air tables is the same approval required?

 

[Thalassamania]

This is changing. A few institutions have (I believe) approved some of their own standard mixes and tables to go with them. Most, however, would still require approval of the mix and tables.