Deco without C-card

[limeyx]

Frankly, I don't see why simple deco dives are such a major concern for divers with sufficient experience to know how to deal with a "hard" (or is it "soft?") ceiling. Most certified divers treat every dive as if it were a deco dive by doing the suggested 3-5 minute stop at 15-20 ft. Not in any way suggesting an OW certified diver with minimal experience should consider this, but I certainly did them as an OW certified diver (after a few decades!).

I've never had a dive boat check my computer to see whether I've gone into deco or not.

But do you have deco training?

It's awfully easy for someone without the training to say "I dont see why it's such a big deal"

 

[limeyx]

Perhaps I need to clarify my question.

I don't know how deep the average dive is in California, but in Australia most of the wrecks are in 50-70 meters. I dive the the shallower wrecks with a single tank for descent and BT and a slung bottle for the ascent and deco.

For a planned dive to 50 meters, there is only ONE operator that will allow any diver to participate, REGARDLESS OF EXPERIENCE, without a deco and preferably an extended range C-card.

There have been three rebreather deaths in recent times around here.
As as result, a lot of boats have been changing their policies.

If you bring doubles and stages, I would expect a majority of boats (maybe all) to require that you stay within "no deco" limits. Some will let you do tech dives, but require advance notice (and C-Card) so they can obtain a tech DM.

I believe it is the case that most insurance policies will only cover a DM up to their level of training (so an OW recreational DM can only DM OW recreational dives)

It's honestly not worth it for the boat owners, given the liability.

However, if you take a big single, or doubles, there's pretty much no way they are going to be able to detect you doing some amount of deco on back gas (as long as your runtimes fit within the boat schedule)

 

[limeyx]

I don't think I've been on a trip that had dive locations within reach of the boat deeper than 120ft, excluding the rigs. So from my limited experience this hasn't even been an issue. The only time I've seen someone get carded is when they're requesting nitrox, no matter what kind of gear confirguration they have.

Billy

Ship Rock
Farnsworth
Bird Rock (you can get to 150)
Blue Caverns (reef hits 150)
Isthmuths "deep" reef (160)
yellowtail point (160)

the bottom drops off real fast along catalina, and if you dont mind a "reef" tech dive, then you can usually do one.

But for sure, stuff like wrecks -- that has to be planned in advance.

 

[FishDiver]

Ship Rock
Farnsworth
Bird Rock (you can get to 150)
Blue Caverns (reef hits 150)
Isthmuths "deep" reef (160)
yellowtail point (160)

the bottom drops off real fast along catalina, and if you dont mind a "reef" tech dive, then you can usually do one.

But for sure, stuff like wrecks -- that has to be planned in advance.

My concern over deco cert pertains primarily to wreck dives. What are the average depths for the wrecks in California?

Are they typically done as deco dives?

 

[limeyx]

My concern over deco cert pertains primarily to wreck dives. What are the average depths for the wrecks in California?

Are they typically done as deco dives?

A bit of both, BUT if a wreck is out of recreational depths, then an open boat is basically not gonna go there -- you have to book on a tech trip, and there you will probably have to present a card.

There are some wrecks in both ranges.

recreational:
Olympic (100)
Africa Queen (100)
palawan (120) -- (I would do this on 30/30 or as a deco dive)

tech:
Caissons (140-160)
Moody (150)
jenny Lynne (130?)


Generally with wrecks (except big ones) it's going to be rec or tech (unless you are really pushing the recreational limits but that's another whole story)

 

[MHK]

I've had the experience of running several charters that were specifically tailored towards deco diving, and as a result I spent a significant amount of time working with IANTD ( I was operating under the IANTD umbrella at the time) as well as the insurance company trying to be pro-active in covering my butt. As a result of my research both IANTD & the insurance company mandated changes to both the policy and the professional ratings. Under a stereotypical insurance policy and/or waiver most only cover planned diving in the recreational ranges, ie; 130'. To the etxent planned decompression diving is involved you need to have a Technical Dive Supervisor in lieu of a DM, and moreover the waiver needs to include that the diver in question acknoweldges that s/he is properly trained in exceeding otherwise acceptable decompression limits and acknowledges the added risk. ANY operator that is willing to let a non-trained diver exceed recreational profiles is either unaware of the risks and/or careless so I would therefore question what else they are missing. Are they mandating profiles be logged before the dive? Do they have chase boats for floating deco in currents? Do they have hang deco bottles for emergency? Do they know how in-water deco should be used if mandated? Do they have support divers? Do they have a recall system? These are just a few things to consider when a diver, or a dive operation, moves from a recreational operation towards a technical operation. I also think you'll find that a boat that comingles recreational divers with technical divers is more often then not incompatible. For example, assuming you have a site that can accomodate both recreational and technical divers, we normally recommend not exceeding 90 minute run times in the open ocean for technical diving, so what happens when you have a tech diver planning a 90 minute dive and a recreational diver doing a dive to 100' that renders a ~20 minute NDL? Those inconsistent profiles, from a pure practical standpoint, usually makes for some unhappy divers when they have to wait over an hour before other divers begin to board the boat before they can move to the next location.

I'm often troubled by those that lack the training, and/or appreciation, for what is involved when doing decompression diving, and then render opinions that are somewhat ill-informed. Crossing over from recreational diving to technical diving requires an appreciation for the added risks; an appreciation for the required training; and an appreciation for the procedures that need to be in place to mitigate the added risks associated with a planned decompression dive.

Hope that helps..

 

[Scuba-Jay]

Well said MHK

 

[MHK]

The boat also usually has a gate time and wants you to be back on the boat by a specific time. As long as you take that into consideration when planning your dives, I don't think that they would even be aware you were deco diving.

Ann Marie,

I debated responding to your comment(s) because I don't want my response to come off as harsh, but in all honesty the above comment comming from an instructor is a pretty dangerous comment. The crew of the boat is a vital part of anyone doing a decompression dive. They need to know your run time, they need to have emergency plans in place for other divers in the water should a diver have a problem, they need to be aware of the need for potential in-water additional 02, they need to have a chase boat & crew available for floating deco, especially if strong currents kick up, they need to know how to use in-water deco if it is needed, they need to coordinate with support divers and surface managers, etc. etc.

I don't mean to slam you, but given that some newer divers may read these comments and see that they are comming from an instructor, they may get the wrong impression so I felt it necessary to correct the record.

Regards,

 

[FishDiver]

I've had the experience of running several charters that were specifically tailored towards deco diving, and as a result I spent a significant amount of time working with IANTD as well as the insurance company trying to be pro-active in covering my butt.

Hope that helps..

It helps a great deal.

I had mentally indicted the insurance companies but not fully thought out the extra responsibilities of the boat operator. None of the operators I've dived with have chase boats, for instance.

I believe that once I return to California I will stick to the non-deco wrecks.