Deco with too less air, options from the book

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Not all scenarios occur from diver error.
What if you are diving your plan, as planned, and your buddy begins experiencing a medical emergency. He/she is still conscious but fading and you have to make the choice between shaving some deco off or having the buddy become unresponsive/unconscious under water.

This really is a vague scenario. What's the dive, dive plan, deco plan, gas plan, type of dive (boat, shore, cave), is there surface crew, etc...

Again...

Best case scenario??

If I was at 20 FSW or Shallower... I'd take the buddy up, and get him/her on 100% Oxygen... and return to the water ASAP (if I felt well, and I had the proper gas supply). I'd add 1 minute to my stop time, and continue on my decompression schedule (if I was only out of the water for a minute)

Longer out of the water time, and lack of symptoms would require additional time on the previous deco stop.

If I was having required 5 minute stops at 50 feet, because I was on a 250 foot dive, and the buddy is non-responsive... I'd have to think long and hard about what to do... Surfacing directly from a 50 foot decompression stop could cause MY death?
 
As a general comment on SB, I always hate posters who think that: "Well you shouldn't have gotten yourself into that situation" is a constructive and helpful response to the question:

I post this post as a staff member :)

I agree with this... People wouldn't be asking - if they didn't know.

The idea of SB is for people to learn, discuss, and educate.

There's nothing wrong with asking questions - That's why SB IS here.

It's easy to say, "you shouldn't have gotten in that situation" and sure - we all say it... but then ... there you are... So how do we avoid these situations? We talk about them from the comfort of our homes, while on SB...
 
I post this post as a staff member :)

I agree with this... People wouldn't be asking - if they didn't know.

The idea of SB is for people to learn, discuss, and educate.

There's nothing wrong with asking questions - That's why SB IS here.

It's easy to say, "you shouldn't have gotten in that situation" and sure - we all say it... but then ... there you are... So how do we avoid these situations? We talk about them from the comfort of our homes, while on SB...

Not necessarily, Howard ... there are times when that is the appropriate answer.

In this case, reading the OP's first sentence, it sounds as if he's saying he's doing this dive on backgas only, with no redundant air source.

If that is the case ... and that's how I read it ... then the thing to learn, and the appropriate answer is "don't put yourself in that situation".

This isn't a recreational dive. It shouldn't be approached as a recreational dive. If the OP wants to be doing a dive to this depth, and deco is incurred, then there is a correct way to plan it.

Correct procedures, for ALL tech diving, involve considering contingencies for a loss of gas and preparing appropriately to deal with it. There are, of course, things that can go wrong during a dive that would prompt a valid decision to cut your deco short. Inadequate gas supplies should never be one of those reasons.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
I read the original post as a question that most instructors would answer as 'if you cut your schedule, you run a higher risk.' As far as taking a hit, according to DAN, sometimes, even when doing your dive on schedule, you can be hit. Period. And, there are cases where people blow off most if not all of their stops and seem fine. Obviously, if you are doing any form of technical diving, you are going to want to KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON, be PROPERLY equiped and trained. There are possibilities of being put in a situation where you will not have the gas to do the stops. A severe entanglement at the end of the dive, a current that came out of nowhere, followed by a catastrophic failure, wreck collapses, trying to save someone, etc, etc. To say I will never have any of these problems means you are lying to yourself. Or you are diving in absolutely perfect conditions all the time. Must be nice. So, before you all flame me with whatever (as a DIR GUE, I'd have my buddy free me-let's say he had his head bitten off by a giant triggerfish,or if you enter a wreck that collapses, you shouldn't have gone in-didn't one of the team end in a collapsed cave.....)lets get back to the OP's question- which to skip and why. I am not trying to start anything, I just get sick of people flaming me with their straight from the manual responses. Really, Really, Really sick of it......
'-J
 
Must be nice. So, before you all flame me with whatever (as a DIR GUE, I'd have my buddy free me-let's say he had his head bitten off by a giant triggerfish,or if you enter a wreck that collapses, you shouldn't have gone in-didn't one of the team end in a collapsed cave.....)... I am not trying to start anything, I just get sick of people flaming me with their straight from the manual responses. Really, Really, Really sick of it......
'-J
This is your first post in this thread, and it sounds like you are saying it is happening a lot to you, so, can you show me where? (that's kinda a flame to every GUE DIR diver you just posted yourself ya know...)
 
Sure, or the burst disk on your deco mix could blow at the end of your bottom time. Lots of possibilities.

Which is why you carry enough back gas to deco out on it (or do in your team) and a yellow bag.

Oh and don't use tanks with burst disks.
 
It's easy to say, "you shouldn't have gotten in that situation" and sure - we all say it... but then ... there you are... So how do we avoid these situations? We talk about them from the comfort of our homes, while on SB...

This entire thread has all been about how to avoid a situation that can NEVER happen for a sensible diver. Simply accepting they've been brain dead and done many things wrong then attempting to dig themselves out of the hole gets nowhere. This is meant to be "advanced" discussion part of the board - we're its assumed divers are meant to be a little bit more knowledgeable. The original post was far from it to the extent of being dangerous. He asked a question and got the correct reply "plan your dives properly".
 
...which isnt a big problem as your buddys are carrying spare gas...And of course you have that yellow bag to get a drop tank dont you?

a current that came out of nowhere,

Do tell me how a current can cause you to miss deco. Im intrigued.

followed by a catastrophic failure,

Such as? Each diver should have their own redundant gas source and if not solo so should their pairs/teams. And as they planned their gas properly its enough to get a diver out.

wreck collapses,

See my first point

trying to save someone,

See my first point. And the part about proper gas planning. Then go and get some training where procedures for that are given.


You havent mentioned a single situation where pre-dive planning couldnt stop happening.
 
I read the original post as a question that most instructors would answer as 'if you cut your schedule, you run a higher risk.' As far as taking a hit, according to DAN, sometimes, even when doing your dive on schedule, you can be hit. Period. And, there are cases where people blow off most if not all of their stops and seem fine. Obviously, if you are doing any form of technical diving, you are going to want to KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON, be PROPERLY equiped and trained. There are possibilities of being put in a situation where you will not have the gas to do the stops. A severe entanglement at the end of the dive, a current that came out of nowhere, followed by a catastrophic failure, wreck collapses, trying to save someone, etc, etc. To say I will never have any of these problems means you are lying to yourself. Or you are diving in absolutely perfect conditions all the time. Must be nice. So, before you all flame me with whatever (as a DIR GUE, I'd have my buddy free me-let's say he had his head bitten off by a giant triggerfish,or if you enter a wreck that collapses, you shouldn't have gone in-didn't one of the team end in a collapsed cave.....)lets get back to the OP's question- which to skip and why. I am not trying to start anything, I just get sick of people flaming me with their straight from the manual responses. Really, Really, Really sick of it......
'-J

Well, first off let's not make this an agency-specific issue ... because it is certainly not that. My first tech training was with IANTD. My Advanced Nitrox/Deco class was NAUI, but we used TDI materials for the classwork (because, frankly, they're better than what NAUI was offering at the time). And my Trimix 1 and 2 classes were NAUI. And there are certain things they ALL emphasized. One of those things is planning for things to go wrong ... and in particular, planning in such a way that if they DO go wrong, you will not be left with an inadequate gas supply.

Most agencies train you to be able to handle any combination of two failures without compromising your safety. What this means is that if you lose gas, you will be able to make up that gas with reserves in some fashion that will not require you to skip any mandatory deco. So if you follow your training, having things go wrong won't require you to make an unsafe ascent.

So thinking along those lines ... there are certain things you should ALWAYS include in your dive plan.

- Bring sufficient backgas that if you lose your deco gas you have enough to extend your schedule and deco on backgas.
- Bring sufficient deco gas that if you or your buddy lose a deco bottle you have enough that you can extend your schedule and share what's left and honor your deco obligation.

Planning the dive so that both (or all three in some cases) divers on the team observe the two rules above means that even if you encounter two or three simultaneous problems, the possibility of having to reduce your deco schedule due to inadequate gas supplies is extremely remote ... and if it happens, you've got bigger problems than just a risk of DCS.

You JUST SHOULDN'T be doing the dive the OP described with no redundancy, and insufficient reserves to accommodate a problem. Once you get to the point where you're doing tech dives, the mindset that goes into recreational protocols doesn't apply ... that's why the training is so important.

Now, if you WANT TO take those risks, go ahead ... there aren't any scuba police gonna stop you. But if you're going to come to ScubaBoard ... or any other dive forum ... and ask how to accommodate a situation that just shouldn't occur, then don't complain when people tell you not to plan your dive in such a way that it could happen.

As I said earlier ... we did talk about reducing a deco schedule in my classes. But in no circumstance did we frame it in such a way that the issue was that you failed to bring adequate gas for a lost-gas contingency. That's just poor planning, and has no place in tech diving. If you want to dive that way, then my advice is stick to NDL profiles, where there's always a possibility for a direct ascent.

Or ... stop living in denial and just recognize that you're flying by the seat of your pants and are doing a dive without really understanding or planning for dealing with the risks involved.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
I am not trying to start anything, I just get sick of people flaming me with their straight from the manual responses. Really, Really, Really sick of it......
'-J

J, you lost me here on this statement---hmmmmmm Have you been hanging around the coffee pot a bit to much this morning?
 

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