Dacor Website?

[Whitelightnin]

PRAISE THE LORD!!! I got the hose from Dacor. No refund on the shipping. No payment for my time. No payment for my labor. No "Thank you for taking care of our good name".
AND....Still no details on the trade in program.

James

 

[Whitelightnin]

THANK YOU to the VERY nice dealer who faxed me the trade in details. It is MUCHLY appreciated.

I don't know how you managed to get your fax machine to work but you might want to call Dacor & offer to teach them how it's done.

James

 

[Phil Mintz]

James,

In many conversations with dealers, some on these boards I have clearly acknowledged the issues that Dacor has had. Have some Dacor dealers been "lost" when we integrated the company into Mares? Yes, due to our fault, Yes. Have we addressed many issues in the six months I have been here, Yes. Can we turn around 5 years in six months, no. Most people (dealers and consumers) that I have spoken to have responded in a positive manner. Clearly you have not been taken care of, but let's be honest. While we may not have done the job supporting you, you state you have called here multiple times, requested to be on a the mailing list etc. Yet you never have asked for the name of the person you spoke to (all CSR's give their name when they answer the phone). You have asked for a supervisor to call you yet you never asked to speak directly or for a name of one, you never asked to be transferred to the head of the company. While the bad service is not your fault, when you run into a wall, sometimes it is better to step to the side and open the door instead of continuing to run into the wall.

Your business is something we have to earn and our sales representatives have obviously not done the job since no one has called on you, but when you state you had two years of inventory when you bought the store, we should all remember this is a business. If your customers do not buy from you for two years you will not be around in year three. Our sales representative should have helped you with your inventory, but even thought they did not you should have insisted that the company assist.

In the end I do not feel going back and forth on a chat board will result in anything positive for either of us (except for some entertainment value of the others). I will personally call you to work out our issues. Whether we end up doing business together or not, at least we can have a discussion and hopefully clear the air.



Phil

 

[Whitelightnin]

Yet you never have asked for the name of the person you spoke to (all CSR's give their name when they answer the phone). You have asked for a supervisor to call you yet you never asked to speak directly or for a name of one, you never asked to be transferred to the head of the company.

Phil

Yes, they give their name. NOPE, I can't remember it for more that 3 seconds. That is why I call my wife "Honey" and "Pretty Lady". I forgot her name years ago. Well....You get the picture.

but when you state you had two years of inventory when you bought the store
Phil

Sorry, I NEVER said that. What I said was that when I bought the store, the previous owner had PLENTY & I didn't need to order any FOR AWHILE.

If you reread my post, you will see that I asked you if you had had the service that I had during my first season, would YOU have ordered from you guys?
I had enough inventory to get me most of the way through the first summer. After the service I recieved, I decided to just pick up another line or two of products. I also said that you missed out on about $150,000 in sales this season.

While the bad service is not your fault, when you run into a wall, sometimes it is better to step to the side and open the door instead of continuing to run into the wall.

Our sales representative should have helped you with your inventory, but even thought they did not you should have insisted that the company assist.

Phil

This is very true. However, that is one of my major faults. I believe it is up to YOU to keep my business. I should not have to BEG to get service from you. I figure that if my business is no more important than that, there are PLENTY of companies out there that would LOVE to have a shot at it.



One more thing, I noticed that you totally ignored ALL of the questions above asked by Marek K ond OkieDiver. Please respond to those questions.

Thanks

James

 

[Phil Mintz]

Yes, they give their name. NOPE, I can't remember it for more that 3 seconds. That is why I call my wife "Honey" and "Pretty Lady". I forgot her name years ago. Well....You get the picture.



Sorry, I NEVER said that. What I said was that when I bought the store, the previous owner had PLENTY & I didn't need to order any FOR AWHILE.

If you reread my post, you will see that I asked you if you had had the service that I had during my first season, would YOU have ordered from you guys?
I had enough inventory to get me most of the way through the first summer. After the service I recieved, I decided to just pick up another line or two of products. I also said that you missed out on about $150,000 in sales this season.



This is very true. However, that is one of my major faults. I believe it is up to YOU to keep my business. I should not have to BEG to get service from you. I figure that if my business is no more important than that, there are PLENTY of companies out there that would LOVE to have a shot at it.



One more thing, I noticed that you totally ignored ALL of the questions above asked by Marek K ond OkieDiver. Please respond to those questions.

Thanks

James

James,

I called your store this morning, you were not in. They told me you would be in this afternoon, so I will call you in a few minutes. They did not seem to want to take a message.

Marek's question was to Larry, I have corresponded with him in the past and answered this already. . Either way, if a product is defective it should be sent back to the company. If a product is under warranty, we cover parts, not labor. This is stated in our policy. I think you will find the labor policy to be similar with most diving companies.

I spoke with our Sales Representative, Rick Golden. His recollection of his first visit to your store (after you bought it from Russ and Dana) was quite clear regarding your intentions on doing business with us. You did state "plenty" and "awhile", but what I said is also correct, it has been "two years".

Dailing you now.

Phil

 

[Scuba]

I thought we had clarified some of these issues.

Marek's question was to Larry, I have corresponded with him in the past and answered this already. . Either way, if a product is defective it should be sent back to the company. If a product is under warranty, we cover parts, not labor. This is stated in our policy. I think you will find the labor policy to be similar with most diving companies.
Phil

Please post the warranty policy referenced stipulating labor is not covered.

Quote from previously mentioned thread: :http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=102287&page=1&pp=10&highlight=mares+warranty+parts+labor

Yes, if the reg is defective Mares will cover the entire cost. Any Authorized dealer or consumer (we prefer you go through the dealer) can send it back to us for repair or replacement. I am referring to a defect, not normal wear and tear, abuse or standard service. It is important to never make judgement on an issue until it is evaluated first hand no matter how knowlegable someone may be
...............
Mares is the final responsible party for it's warranty, we do not exclude (as a business decision) warranty performance as a condition of Authorized Dealer Agreement. It is a requirement as well as complying to Federal Trade Commission Product Warranties Act.

Performance as per warranty policy quoted below requires repair or replacement of defective product. No-where does it say repairs, which include labor, must be paid for by consumer. Warranty performance would require, when possible, the action taken by Whitelightnin with his replacement of the hose for the consumer. As opposed to customer sending product to Mares - and waiting, or taking it to dealer who ships to Mares while customer - waits, or to have customer pay dealer for product defects performance, repair or replacement, covered under warranty, an action dealers are required to perform per the FTC act, and dealer agreement, per your quote. I find it hard to believe co. policy on this issue is not clearly stated in dealer agreement, if this is indeed the case.

Quotes from Mares Limited Warranty posted on referenced thread.

Mares warrants this regulator against defects in materials and workmanship for the lifetime of the original owner, with the exception of mouthpiece, hose, O-rings, filter or valve seats, which are warranted for 2 years. During the first two years, Mares warrants that all parts of this regulator will be free of defects in materials and workmanship. Mares will at their option repair or replace any components they find to be defective.

Certain warranty stipulated conditions must be met. Not posted. There is no mention of labor charges, but an implication that product is fully covered for any qualifying defect corrections, withing limitations, at no cost to consumer, except when consumer chooses to ship product directly to Mares. Warranty does stipulate customer must pay shipping in this case.

Quote from warranty:

To obtain warranty service, you must deliver the regulator to Mares or one of their authorized repair facilities If you send the regulator to the factory, you must pay the shipping charges to the factory..

Frankly, Phil, at this time I do not have any confidence in your, or Mares in general, reply. Nevermind the futility of getting a simple straight forward answer. The same answer - twice. If you truly want to make Mares a company divers can trust, formulate a policy that encompasses important consumer issues, have them clearly stated in writing, and clearly articulated by all co. rep's., - in a consistent and concise manner. That is not what I see at this point.

Let everyone reach their own judgment.

 

[Phil Mintz]

Scuba,

The reason the majority of companies do not come on these boards is they simply do not want to face hostile consumers and get into extended discussions caused by how they may type or state something in a forum. Yet some, including myself are here. That may not be worth anything, but many have told me privatly that it is.

As for our policy, the above quotes are clear. If a product has a manufacturing defect, in most cases it has to come back since it cannot be repaired. Many dealers (such as Larry) who work with us on a regular basis understand this and many times will replace the item for the customer knowing we will then replace to them.

As for service, we cover parts, not labor. This is also stated and is consistant throughout the industry.

We evaluate our policy on a regular basis and from time to time do make changes, these can all be found in the policy book that comes with every product.

I think most understand this, there are always exceptions under certain situations, but these are not the norm and I cannot list every possible situation in this forum. I know you will not like that, but it is simply not possible.

Over all I feel our current policies are fair and consistant. Maybe this does not satisfy you, but I am not sure what would. Maybe I am wrong for coming on these boards to speak with most beacuse there always seems to be a few who feel Dive companies are these big billion dollar corporations and Dr. Evil is sitting behind a desk thinking of ways to screw the consumer next.

I can tell you that today everyone at Mares is working hard to sell, service and be a good company to do business with. Are we perfect? I do not know any company that is.

There are many companies in the industry because consumers want choice. While we want your trust and support, in this case it may not be possible. We hold no ill will and will continue to do our job in the marketplace

 

[Debraw]

With regards to ANY item that I sell in my store, if someone bought it in my shop and in some cases even when they have not, I service it. I take that defective part, hose whatever get and RMA and send it back and I always get a new one. I have never expected to get paid for labor. To me it is part of doing business. I even took back a Uk light that a guy brought it yesterday with the receipt he had bought it at Leisure Pro. I am a local UK dealer. I called got an RMA and sent it back, he paid the shipping. It took about 3 minutes. Meanwhile, he bought some air and continues to do business with me in one form or another and has over the last three years. I have no doubt that customer will recommend my shop if someone asks him where they should go to get certified. I have changed literally 30 or so hoses from various Dacor/Mares models of computers and regulators. I have been dealing with the hose issue from Mares for TWO YEARS! My former store manager called Dave in the parts department and said " hey I need like 20 hoses so I have something to change out with on the spot". We got them and I sent back the bad hoses, all at one time in a priority mail box. I never asked for any labor. What I do expect is respect when dealing with Mares in the future and have no employees or management to question my loyalty to the product. I think every company has some issues in one form or another. I feel bad the Broken Bow Scuba has not received the same level of care that I have received from Mares/Dacor. My Dacor rep Rick Golden was the first person to take me seriously when I opened my shop three years ago. He stood in my shop when I had 100 square feet of air conditioned space and did a full product line demonstration as if I were a 2000 square foot store. Two years ago my rep, Rick Golden, sat in my warehouse surrounded by staff and answered HARD questions from us when we had hose crimping problems left and right on some regulators. I started doing trade-ins on Dacor regs that I knew there were no parts for two years ago. I didn't wait for a program to tell me to do it. If it is one thing I have learned in the scuba industry is that no company is perfect. I have had my issues with Mares/Dacor in the past, and that's what it is the past. Bottom Line they have some great products, and I will continue to do business with them now and in the future. My store is now 1800 square feet and we are having a banner year. Servicing the customer first no matter what the cost is my philosophy. My hope is that all companies feel like that and if they don't then they don't get my business.

 

[Tunez]

Well said Debraw. It is what I was trying to say from the get go. I understand that people have and have had problems from any type of business that any of us have owned. In my personal opinion, it takes alot for someone to come on here taking time from the work at their company to answer questions and to withstand the onslaught of angry people. This more than anything seems to be a chance for those who have a troubled past to make a decision. Either you take advantage of the change or keep worrying about a broken past. Me personally, I would try to mend the problems and go forward from there.

Phil, let me say this publicly so it is not all in private. Thank you for taking the time out of your schedule to come here and answer the questions. Although my Darwin Air Integrated computer doesn't do the one thing I would like (12 hour vs 24 hour times), it does do anything else that I could ask for. Anyone else here that has shopped for computers lately will know as I do that you will NOT find a comparable computer at $350. I own two of those as well as a Dacor mask, two Mares Proton MR-12 regulators and two Dacor Viper octos. With that, I am going to stick it out and enjoy them. If something goes wrong down the line, well, I'll deal with that then. Until then, you have a very happy Mares/Dacor customer. As a matter of fact, if I could locate or could have located the Mares Dragonfly Aria in an X-Large, I would have owned that too! Too bad they were not being made anymore!!

 

[Phil Mintz]

Tunez,

Thank you, I also believe in moving forward. I cannot change what was done in the past, I can only understand the past and move forward.

You are one of many happy Mares/Dacor customers. My goal is to continue to keep all of you happy and bring new customers in as well.

I will always come on these boards for many reasons, but most of all I believe it is a good thing to do.

Hope all have a nice weekend.

Phil