Current options for moderate duty scuba compressor?

[PBcatfish]

After watching this video, & after having spent some time in that part of Italy, seeing the hand craftsmanship and attention to detail first hand, I really want to believe in the Coltri.

 

[Ulfhedinn]

Just so I understand and maybe add a little more to this. If one was to purchase a Bauer JrII but only wanted to do Nitrox fills what else would one need or do I need to get a entirely different compressor?

 

[PBcatfish]

Just so I understand and maybe add a little more to this. If one was to purchase a Bauer JrII but only wanted to do Nitrox fills what else would one need or do I need to get a entirely different compressor?

I'm not the expert here. I'm just a guy that is figuring this stuff out for myself now. But it appears to me that if you have a Jr & you want to make nitrox, you basically have two choices.

1 partial pressure blend, by starting with an empty, oxygen-clean, tank/valve, then add in a calculated amount of oxygen, then start the compressor & add air on top of it, then roll the tank to mix, then test the mix for oxygen content. In this case, you need an oxygen clean transfill hose or some similar gizmo to get the oxygen into the tank at the beginning.

2 buy (or make) a "nitrox stick" which is basically a big turbulator tube with an oxygen sensor on it. In this case, you feed regulated amounts of oxygen into the intake of the compressor along with ambient air. I am told that the stick system is expensive. I don't have numbers. I THINK that the Jr is OK for sub 40% nitrox blends, but please check on that.

Lake Hickory Scuba has a video on youtube where he demonstrates the nitrox stick that he made.

The compressor he uses there looks a lot like a Jr.

 

[iain/hsm]

I really want to believe in the Coltri.

I believe only in God. For everyone else you need verification and specification. So allow me to disappoint you on this new Coltri.

To kick off if we start with just this video and what you can clearly see nd identify on the video and what was said on the video. For brevity if we start with the Honda with the engine in your photo.
The first thing you notice is the insipid cream colour petrol engine, It’s different to the old red and white Honda engine we all used to use and love the question is why?

These new Honda GP range (GP 200) are light duty engines made in Jialing China with its 3/4” crankshaft It’s a cheaper performing alternative to the proper red and white commercial heavy duty GX range of Honda engines made in Japan.

Weighing in at 16 Kg developing 4.1Kw of maximum power at 3600RPM at intermittent use and a reduced 3.3Kw of power at continual rated power but at 3000 RPM
And offering maximum torque at 2500 RPM with 12.4 Nm of torque
On paper it just fits the minimum required power requirement using a 68mm piston on a 54mm stroke
0.6 litre oil capacity and a 3 litre (gas) petrol tank

Fuel consumption is 1.7 litres per hour so running around an hour and three quarters (about 3 fills) before your sucking fumes and wondering how long you have to wait before pouring petrol into the thing without spilling onto a hot engine on a rolling deck and burning the boat down.

Its basically a cheap alternative to China crap and cheap however Honda stipulate its designed for light duty use only. Please put this in the back of your mind for later. when we discuss Coltri’s position. By contrast for a little more money Coltri could have offered the GX series designed for heavy duty use and with extended service life like most other professional compressor companies supply.

I guess if Coltri had offered the professional GX model even as an optional extra i would have nothing to say about the engine. All well and good but at around $140 more expensive and as most buyers of new scuba compressors go with ignorance and a nice colour at the cheapest possible price. Why should Coltri care when to the average scuba compressor buyer a Heavy duty and an extended service life is a concept retail divers don’t fully appreciate until they are knees deep in oil and broken parts wondering why a cast metal part on a con rod is less effective than a forged metal one…. but we can get to that later.

In conclusion Its a poor engine option Coltri would have been better to offer the GX as an optional extra than this cheap junker but it does reduce the up front cost to the end user at no additional cost to Coltri and by using the cheaper GP engine. Ignorance is bliss But that's just opinion based on experience.

As for the rest of the video there are quite a number of comments of concern that Coltri state on the video about thisnew block and build spec that IMHO needs deeper consideration we can get into this later. But its not good or great IMHO just don’t go into it with faith and your eyes shut.

All the best for 2022 Iain.

 

[PBcatfish]

I believe only in God. For everyone else you need verification and specification. So allow me to disappoint you on this new Coltri.

To kick off if we start with just this video and what you can clearly see nd identify on the video and what was said on the video. For brevity if we start with the Honda with the engine in your photo.
The first thing you notice is the insipid cream colour petrol engine, It’s different to the old red and white Honda engine we all used to use and love the question is why?

These new Honda GP range (GP 200) are light duty engines made in Jialing China with its 3/4” crankshaft It’s a cheaper performing alternative to the proper red and white commercial heavy duty GX range of Honda engines made in Japan.

Weighing in at 16 Kg developing 4.1Kw of maximum power at 3600RPM at intermittent use and a reduced 3.3Kw of power at continual rated power but at 3000 RPM
And offering maximum torque at 2500 RPM with 12.4 Nm of torque
On paper it just fits the minimum required power requirement using a 68mm piston on a 54mm stroke
0.6 litre oil capacity and a 3 litre (gas) petrol tank

Fuel consumption is 1.7 litres per hour so running around an hour and three quarters (about 3 fills) before your sucking fumes and wondering how long you have to wait before pouring petrol into the thing without spilling onto a hot engine on a rolling deck and burning the boat down.

Its basically a cheap alternative to China crap and cheap however Honda stipulate its designed for light duty use only. Please put this in the back of your mind for later. when we discuss Coltri’s position. By contrast for a little more money Coltri could have offered the GX series designed for heavy duty use and with extended service life like most other professional compressor companies supply.

I guess if Coltri had offered the professional GX model even as an optional extra i would have nothing to say about the engine. All well and good but at around $140 more expensive and as most buyers of new scuba compressors go with ignorance and a nice colour at the cheapest possible price. Why should Coltri care when to the average scuba compressor buyer a Heavy duty and an extended service life is a concept retail divers don’t fully appreciate until they are knees deep in oil and broken parts wondering why a cast metal part on a con rod is less effective than a forged metal one…. but we can get to that later.

In conclusion Its a poor engine option Coltri would have been better to offer the GX as an optional extra than this cheap junker but it does reduce the up front cost to the end user at no additional cost to Coltri and by using the cheaper GP engine. Ignorance is bliss But that's just opinion based on experience.

As for the rest of the video there are quite a number of comments of concern that Coltri state on the video about thisnew block and build spec that IMHO needs deeper consideration we can get into this later. But its not good or great IMHO just don’t go into it with faith and your eyes shut.

All the best for 2022 Iain.

Wow, you use a lot of words to say - I don't like the engine they selected there.

That aside, I said that I want to believe in the Coltri, & I still do. I didn't say that I do believe in the Coltri. At this time I am still a skeptic with an enthusiastic desire to learn more & develop a qualified opinion. I'm not there yet.

Thank you for your contribution. It has been well noted.

 

[Tracy]

I believe only in God. For everyone else you need verification and specification. So allow me to disappoint you on this new Coltri.

To kick off if we start with just this video and what you can clearly see nd identify on the video and what was said on the video. For brevity if we start with the Honda with the engine in your photo.
The first thing you notice is the insipid cream colour petrol engine, It’s different to the old red and white Honda engine we all used to use and love the question is why?

These new Honda GP range (GP 200) are light duty engines made in Jialing China with its 3/4” crankshaft It’s a cheaper performing alternative to the proper red and white commercial heavy duty GX range of Honda engines made in Japan.

Weighing in at 16 Kg developing 4.1Kw of maximum power at 3600RPM at intermittent use and a reduced 3.3Kw of power at continual rated power but at 3000 RPM
And offering maximum torque at 2500 RPM with 12.4 Nm of torque
On paper it just fits the minimum required power requirement using a 68mm piston on a 54mm stroke
0.6 litre oil capacity and a 3 litre (gas) petrol tank

Fuel consumption is 1.7 litres per hour so running around an hour and three quarters (about 3 fills) before your sucking fumes and wondering how long you have to wait before pouring petrol into the thing without spilling onto a hot engine on a rolling deck and burning the boat down.

Its basically a cheap alternative to China crap and cheap however Honda stipulate its designed for light duty use only. Please put this in the back of your mind for later. when we discuss Coltri’s position. By contrast for a little more money Coltri could have offered the GX series designed for heavy duty use and with extended service life like most other professional compressor companies supply.

I guess if Coltri had offered the professional GX model even as an optional extra i would have nothing to say about the engine. All well and good but at around $140 more expensive and as most buyers of new scuba compressors go with ignorance and a nice colour at the cheapest possible price. Why should Coltri care when to the average scuba compressor buyer a Heavy duty and an extended service life is a concept retail divers don’t fully appreciate until they are knees deep in oil and broken parts wondering why a cast metal part on a con rod is less effective than a forged metal one…. but we can get to that later.

In conclusion Its a poor engine option Coltri would have been better to offer the GX as an optional extra than this cheap junker but it does reduce the up front cost to the end user at no additional cost to Coltri and by using the cheaper GP engine. Ignorance is bliss But that's just opinion based on experience.

As for the rest of the video there are quite a number of comments of concern that Coltri state on the video about thisnew block and build spec that IMHO needs deeper consideration we can get into this later. But its not good or great IMHO just don’t go into it with faith and your eyes shut.

All the best for 2022 Iain.

My guess, that engine is good for 250-300 hours. Do you really think then cheap engine on an MCH6 is the weak link in the chain?

 

[PBcatfish]

...Do you really think then cheap engine on an MCH6 is the weak link in the chain?

That is the very same question that crossed my mind.

 

[shopguy]

Sorry for not reading the entire thread, but wanted to share my personal experience, and based on the first page of posts it sounds like you are in Florida, so this place is close for you.

I live in WA (long way from FL) and bought one of these 3 years ago: LW 100 E1 | L&W Compressors

By some mistake (of my own making) I got the 200 bar version instead of 300. Other than that, very happy with this purchase. This was after a purchase of cheap (still over $2000) junk on Amazon and returning to China. My usage over the last 3 years has been about 6 LP 72-90s per week, for about 3 months of the year (mostly summer). It takes maybe 30 minutes to fill each tank (to 2300 PSI), but good time to have a beer and talk about the dive we just finished. No problems or signs of age at all. Filters, oil and maintenance parts are easy to obtain.

We wanted a Bauer, but good luck getting any rep/sales people to talk to you if you aren't a dive shop or fire department, at least in my rural area. George at L&W was very responsive to email, and shipping the compressor from FL to WA was not as painful as we thought. I was worried that they only had one contact/location in the US, but it seems they will be sticking around, and so far have not had any issues contacting them for any needs.

 

[PBcatfish]

Thanks for the first hand report about the L&W. I had only recently come to know that they existed, when
I stopped by Diver's Direct in Dania a month or two ago to ask about compressors. Other than reading that quote, I knew nothing about them.

In the past Divers Direct had Maxair & Bauer Jr compressors on the floor. Now they have none. The manager was able to print me a quote for an L&W after she spent about 20 minutes in the back office. The cost was more expensive than a Bauer Jr, so I passed on the opportunity. Something on the quote made me think that she may have been getting it through Brownies.

In the Fort Lauderdale/Miami area, Bauer support is good, once you find the right guys. I don't know about other brands.

 

[PBcatfish]

...
Where are your Utilus pictures man I can fix it!

Actually, I need to thank you for nudging me to get to work on that thing. It was not as bad as I thought it would be.

Pictures aren't quite ready yet, but I have made a lot of progress.

3 failed high pressure fittings have been identified & replaced. It turns out that the cylinder valves seem to be OK. The reason it would not build pressure when I turned it by hand was because the unloader valves are normally open & without power, they vent all pressure. That's right, it has unloader valves because it IS the auto drain type. I just didn't recognize the components when I first looked at it. Also, it's a Utilus 10, not a Utilus. It's basically a Jr, but with the older name. I'm learning a lot as I go.

My next step is to replace some tubing & then find a 5/8" JA motor shaft bushing so that I can hang a new single phase motor on it. I'll probably need to make an adapter plate to go from a 184T frame to a 56.