Criminally negligent homicide?/Scuba Instructor Faces Charges (merged threads)

[bfw]

If the university allows 20 students and one instructor (certified or not) for the class, then I have to wonder how the criminal negligence falls solely on the instructor.

THAT'S nocause for wonder - the university didn't hold a gun to her head, did they? She had a choice; in fact she was the last one who had a choice/chance to prevent the circumstances you describe. People don't die from REGISTERING or even SHOWING UP for an understaffed class.

 

[bfw]

Just curious to those of you focusing on the fact that she isn't an instructor....If the university issued their own certification cards under a program she started (IE she nominated herself an instructor for this new agency), would you then see a problem with it?

No, but then I don't have a black robe or a gavel, and I can't pull legal precedents out of my behind.

 

[bfw]

If they appointed someone who wasn't qualified then that is their fault not the person who got appointed. If they appointed someone who had lied about qualification then its different.

Stop and think about that. Are you supposing they pulled her off the street and said, "hey, teach this class?" She had to actively pursue a position for which she must have known she wasn't qualified. In the end, SHE walked into that pool building and told the student to get in the water and do whatever he was doing when he died.

 

[bfw]

Removing and replacing scuba gear in water to deep to stand in is certainly tought in my classes. This is a basic skill and tought in order to free your gear from entaglemnt.

Not the same thing.

However ABANDONING your gear and heading to the surface without your gear is not taught in my class and I believe it is dangerours.

By this point in the thread, you've been presented with ample testimony that this has been and continues to be a basic skill for several agencies. It's been taught since before you were born, so unless you have an overwhelming body count to cite, maybe it's time to be a little less parochial about what is and is not common practice in dive training.

Without any judgment of your agency, there is more to dive training than the indoctrination you got from them.

 

[bfw]

Just as a note, the person in charge of this class wouldn't necessarily need to be an instructor to remain within certifying agency's standard. This may be a confined water class (i.e. a P.E. class) where a certification wouldn't be required for passing. In that case I believe a NAUI Divemaster or a PADI Assistant Instructor could conduct this class because an Open Water component isn't in the curriculum.

Not according to PADI standards. Need a full instructor if non-certified divers are using SCUBA.

 

[bfw]

Yes I am. I am making the assumptions that are recomended by the Recreation Scuba Training Council (RSTC) which sets minimum training stadards for IDEA, PADI, PDIC, SDI, SSI and YMCA.

MINIMUM. Only one of those agencies considers the minimum the ideal.

 

[bfw]

I am sure that you are a better diver for learning this skill. And these skills are still taught in sepearte pieces today. The fact remains that a person died performing this drill.

Hundreds die crossing the street every month. So what?

The fact is that threre is a possibilty of death while doing this drill. That makes it dangerous.

There is a possibility of death during ANY drill. You're really not paying the logic bill.

Some people say that Scuba is inherently dangerous. I do not believe that......In those days the sport was dangerous......
Sorry for using your quote for a rant Jim. I mean absolutely nothing personal by it. I just had some things I needed to say.

And you did a very good job quoting your agency's marketing material. Now, if you feel better, maybe you could stop grinding that axe.

 

[String]

I am making the assumptions that are recomended by the Recreation Scuba Training Council (RSTC) which sets minimum training stadards for IDEA, PADI, PDIC, SDI, SSI and YMCA.

You fail to understand what the rstc is. Its NOT a body that sets the standards for the agencies at all. It IS the agencies setting standards for themselves.

It is NOT an independent body out there purely to improve dive safety - its a member-agency cartel.

 

[bfw]

These stadards for conducting the drill may make it less dangerous, But the drill is still dangerous. I person died performing it.

Out of how many people performing it each year? I know, logic is hard.

It is not a common skill you would need for recreational diving.

Actually, it's the single most important skill in diving - dealing with task loading.

Because of these facts, the YMCA should consider not teaching it as stated above.

You've presented several opinions and 1 fact - that a single individual died doing it, and with no denominator in the expression. I can guarantee you that someone, somewhere, has died performing 9 out of 10 skills outlined in the PADI OW course.

I am sorry, I only have access to PADI (I know, cuss if you want) and RSTC teaching standards.

You're fast providing an example of WHY people cuss, uncritically parroting PADI marketing rhetoric like it was Scripture, refusing to accept that any of the agencies that with twice as many years under their belts could possibly know anything about dive training, especially if it didn't originate with PADI.

Could a YMCA instructor please comment on the stadard of care for the instructor for conducting this drill.

Implicit in this request is the assumption that the YMCA, not being PADI, would have a deficient standard of care. The monumental arrogance of that is staggering. Rest assured, if they didn't have a prudent standard, their members couldn't get insurance. And yes, Virginia, just as there is more than PADI, there is more than Vicenzia & Buckley.

 

[Scotty No P]

The only time I ever left my scuba unit at the bottom of the pool was in Divemaster training and it was closely supervised.