Creation vs. Evolution

[Warthaug]

This is one the most common myths about science that I was taught as a child. Do you think all of those scientists working on new treatments for cancer are closed minded?

The thing is that the creationist definition of "close minded" is "doesn't follow our religious dogma". Only those who blindly accept their interpretation of the bible/other holy book qualify as "open minded" in the eyes of a creationist.

The very idea that there may be more to the world than that described in Genesis is an anathema to creationist doctrine.

Bryan

 

[Thalassamania]

But its proven wrong by more science - not by religion. It's called progress, get used to it. Thals already put forth this challenge, but its worth repeating - name one time when religion and science were in conflict over the nature of a physical process, and religion won.

Bryan

I think that by this time they'd have come up with one if they could. There are none.

Religion starts out from the premise that everything is known (unless they are "mysteries" known only to their god). As time goes on science has destroyed almost everything that religion has to say about how the physical world works, and that puts serious questions into peoples' minds concerning what religion has to say about things that science (in and of itself) is completely disinterested in (e.g., some sort of spirit world). Now the chief religionists, seeing their free lunch passing before their eyes, are fighting a rearguard action feeding well meaning people who have believed in that spirit world obvious contradictory foolishness concerning the physical world. In the end truth will out and because of corner that they painted themselves into the religionists will pass from the scene, unless they succeed in killing us all (and themselves) first. Their belief in the Apocalypse (or Ragnarok, or The Coming of Gochihr, or The Return of Pahana, or Nahui Ollin, etc.) does cause me grave concern, there's a many a Christian out there who would feel glad if they awoke to hear that San Francisco, or New York, or New Deli, or Islamabad where shrouded by a mushroom cloud. They'd rush out into the street expecting to be raptured rather than ruptured.

 

[Danny-Diver]

I've been raised in the fear of God.
Fear of hell, fear of punishment, fear of everything the religious man told us would happen if we didn't listen to gods law (or his interpretation wich is the same).
Fortunately I got rid of my fear.

For many believers we are not killing or stealing or whatever because of fear of punishment. They believe man is an irresponsible beeing not able to control itself without fear of punishment.
For them, not believing is equal to not having values. They can't believe that caring and respecting its brother is a natural thing among humans. No they believe that it only comes out of fear. For them, science is liberating from fear. Exactly the contrary of what they want. More fear.
What a sad opinion on man kind they have.

For me, I believe that the most important values are in civil rights.
And you do not need a God to write them down.
You just have to use your intelligence.

 

[drbill]

The God I was raised under (and accept today) was not one of fear but of love. I see the eye and hand of God (or whatever label one wishes to apply) in the beauty of the world, the universe. And I see no contradiction between the process of evolution and the presence of a Creator.

Amazing that after 100,000+ posts this has still not been resolved... dogma lives.

 

[Spencermm]

The God I was raised under (and accept today) was not one of fear but of love. I see the eye and hand of God (or whatever label one wishes to apply) in the beauty of the world, the universe. And I see no contradiction between the process of evolution and the presence of a Creator.

Amazing that after 100,000+ posts this has still not been resolved... dogma lives.

Refreshing post there Bill.
Thanks,
Spencer

 

[Thalassamania]

The God I was raised under (and accept today) was not one of fear but of love. I see the eye and hand of God (or whatever label one wishes to apply) in the beauty of the world, the universe. And I see no contradiction between the process of evolution and the presence of a Creator.

Amazing that after 100,000+ posts this has still not been resolved... dogma lives.

But do you see a place in the science classroom for creations of Christian creationism such as "Intelligent Design?"

And ... it's only five thousand odd posts, 100,000 plus views. We seem to have a committed readership.

 

[nereas]

The God I was raised under (and accept today) was not one of fear but of love. I see the eye and hand of God (or whatever label one wishes to apply) in the beauty of the world, the universe. And I see no contradiction between the process of evolution and the presence of a Creator...

This is a philosophy called "Existentialism." It has attracted many well-educated followers over the past couple of centuries. It developed as a counter-reaction to New England Puritanism. Its tennants include civil disobedience to protest harmful policies of the government as well as a skepticism of organized religions, especially the Roman church and the English church, which were both seen to be obvious puppets, at the time, of their puppet-masters.

 

[nereas]

I've been raised in the fear of God.
Fear of hell, fear of punishment, fear of everything the religious man told us would happen if we didn't listen to gods law (or his interpretation wich is the same).
Fortunately I got rid of my fear.

For many believers we are not killing or stealing or whatever because of fear of punishment. They believe man is an irresponsible beeing not able to control itself without fear of punishment.
For them, not believing is equal to not having values. They can't believe that caring and respecting its brother is a natural thing among humans. No they believe that it only comes out of fear. For them, science is liberating from fear. Exactly the contrary of what they want. More fear.
What a sad opinion on man kind they have.

For me, I believe that the most important values are in civil rights.
And you do not need a God to write them down.
You just have to use your intelligence.

I suspect that the drafters of the U.S. Declaration of Independence, and the subsequent founders of the U.S. Constitution, which were the first documents to establish wide-spread civil rights, would clearly have disagreed with you, about god(s). Their god(s) were Jesus, his Father, and the Holy Spirit.

 

[offthewall1]

But its proven wrong by more science - not by religion. It's called progress, get used to it. Thals already put forth this challenge, but its worth repeating - name one time when religion and science were in conflict over the nature of a physical process, and religion won.

Bryan

Religion continually wins. The evidence is in the billions of people who attend religious cerimonies each week... while a few thousand scientists work feverishly to prove them all wrong.

 

[nereas]

But do you see a place in the science classroom for creations of Christian creationism such as "Intelligent Design?"

...

The vanity of science education is that it tries to superseded itself in the place of religions.

And the vanity of religions is that they try to do the same to science education.

As east is east, and west is west, these two never should meet.

Science explains the "how" of creation while religion explains the "why" of it, and not vice versa, nor both. Neither explains both.