Creation vs. Evolution

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Attention Mike Ferrara

I know this is a minor point, and not really relevant to much, but if you recall I earlier mentioned that some preachers/churches seem to have an anti-science theme to them.

The below is an excellent example of what I mean. I realize this guy is probably not a priest/decon/paster/padre/..., but these attitudes probably came from one

One also might add that science has been created by close minded individuals - as it is only those with closed minds who are argumentative against ethics, morals, values and truths. Science is nothing more than a closed minded persons argument against all that is right in the world and is difintively the downfall of American culture.

Now, for my reply to the above.

This is probably the most hateful and spiteful thing written so far. It is also probably the most ignorant as well. Don't believe me, replace the word "science" with "Christian", "Jew", "Women" or any group you want. Doesn't read so nicely, does it?

As a scientist all I can say is the above is very hurtful, ignorant, and obviously based on nothing more than pure, unadulterated hate. Strangely enough, it also embodies many of the characteristics you so readily assign to science.

At the end of the day, each and every scientist on this earth has their own reasons and motivations for what we do. Most of us, myself included, pursue our research out of simple curiosity of the way in which the world functions. That my work has lead, and hopefully will continue lead, to better treatment for diseases is an added benefit.

It is why Americans become more hated everyday.

So science is a uniquely american thing now?

We live in a world of great beliefs (religions who honor God/s) - for which science has none.

Of course it doesn't, and the fact you seem to think it should shows that you lack a fundamental understanding of what science is. Science is simply the understanding of the universe in which we live through the empirical observation of the universe.

As in, science is based solely on observable FACTS. Beliefs are the relm of faith; science is about evidence and proof.

Science is all created by close-minded humans... tunnelvisionists with their eyes buried in test tubes and such... which makes it nothing more than close minded human theory.

Strange, that such a closed minded thing, has done so much good for humanity...

I know your arguments better than you do. Who can't comprehend simpleton science?

Given your posts in this thread to date, the answer is clearly "offthewall1". After all, you're parroting anti-science propaganda that even most creationist organization say not to use, as it is demonstratively incorrect. Like wise, it is blatantly obvious you lack working knowledge of what constitutes a scientific theory, how science works, or how conclusions are derived.

Not to mention you "logic" is massively flawed, and would be more accuratly termed "anti-logic".

Your mind needs to expand beyond that which is in front of you.

And since you choose to ignore what is in front of you, what can we conclude about your mind?

The mind is more powerful than science

Science is a product of the human mind, meaning it is as powerful as the minds behind it.

- which is why with all of our great science, no one has figured out the complexity of the human mind.

Give us time, as we're well along the road to do so - we're mapping neural pathways, understanding how impulses become thoughts, and are beginning to understand the roots of memory.


What makes us individuals. Genetics? That is spew. Genetics in combination with environment? That is spew.

Wow, good counter-evidence. "Spew". So by your logic, if I go "God? That is spew" I've now concretely disproven the existence of god...

The reality is that science still can't predict the direction of my next step...

Yet. But if conjecture is correct, and there is a TOE*, than one day we may be able to do just that.

TOE, in this case = "theory of everything", not "theory of evolution"

Logic and deductive reasoning will beat science in any given circumstance.

Those are part of science. Maybe you should learn a little about science first, before you spout off. Cause the above claim just made you look pretty dumb.

It is why humanity reigns supreme... for if not, science would tell us that we would be overrun by the Lions and Tigers and Bears...as humans alone are certainly not by design the highest animal on the food chain.


How the hell did you come up with the above? Science most certainty does not make any of those claims - they are purely of your own imagination.


Bryan
 
Listen to the song "Origin of Species" by Chris Smither, it settles everything!
 
"To believe or not to believe in evolution" is like saying to believe or not to believe in gravity, mailboxes and taxes.
 
One also might add that science has been created by close minded individuals - as it is only those with closed minds who are argumentative against ethics, morals, values and truths. Science is nothing more than a closed minded persons argument against all that is right in the world and is difintively the downfall of American culture.
Any free, open and unbiased analysis of the history of science would find your statement to be tons and tons of horse pucky. You're two hundred years too late to join the Luddites, but I'm sure that they'd have loved to have you.

It is why Americans become more hated everyday. We live in a world of great beliefs (religions who honor God/s) - for which science has none. Science is all created by close-minded humans... tunnelvisionists with their eyes buried in test tubes and such... which makes it nothing more than close minded human theory.
You and Osama bin Laden sound remarkably alike. Is that just chance or perhaps do you share a common world view?

As a typical closed minded - tunnelvisionist you wish to attack those of us who know more than yourself and who accept that there are things greater than ourselves. This is to be expected. As a debater who went 100 and 0 against your type, I know your arguments better than you do. Who can't comprehend simpleton science? Your mind needs to expand beyond that which is in front of you.
You're a debating hero ... in your own mind. You've had your ass kicked hard and repeatedly but you seem to lack a sufficient cephalic concentration of neurons to recognize it. Perhaps we've been too kind and been kicking you in the wrong end.

The mind is more powerful than science - which is why with all of our great science, no one has figured out the complexity of the human mind. What makes us individuals. Genetics? That is spew. Genetics in combination with environment? That is spew. The reality is that science still can't predict the direction of my next step... only logic and deductive reasoning has a chance at doing so.... and because that is also human... it has a 50/50 chance at best.
A mind is a terrible thing to baste. Science is not about prediction outside of the data set, that's called extrapolation and is important for forming hypothesis that must later be tested, but is only slightly better than the examination of goat entrails or the beseeching of a god for prognostication. Science is about understanding how things occur. Science can not tell you where next you will step, but it can tell you how you take that step and what the effect of stepping here vs. there may be.

Logic and deductive reasoning will beat science in any given circumstance. It is why humanity reigns supreme... for if not, science would tell us that we would be overrun by the Lions and Tigers and Bears...as humans alone are certainly not by design the highest animal on the food chain.
That view was discarded in the thirteenth century with the discrediting of the scholastic school of thought and the change from the Medieval to the Renaissance. You have a Medieval world view in the modern age. For you, it's as though nothing has been learned in the last eight hundred years.
 
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Both sides have said plenty of insulting and hurtful things.
(No, I won't cite any of them.)
Spencer
 
Is it insulting to call a spade a spade? Perhaps.

It may not be PC, it may not be warm and fuzzy, but when someone insists that 2+2=5 despite being shown the error, it is not unreasonable to conclude that they lake sufficient discernment, education and/or intelligence.
 
One also might add that science has been created by close minded individuals\

This is one the most common myths about science that I was taught as a child. Do you think all of those scientists working on new treatments for cancer are closed minded? Are they working on the same treatments they were working on 100 years ago?

Are aids researchers dogmatic drones working the same angles to treat the disease that have previously failed?

You might be surprised to know that even evolution continues to be researched and defined. Evolution itself evolves and Darwin would be surprised to see the version of the theory today.

Science is only considered closed-minded to people who don't want to agree with the results. Whether its people who think the earth is flat, that the sun revolves around the earth, or that a creator made humans magically; science solved the conundrum only to have the results questioned.

In a few hundred years, who wants to be looked down upon historically as a flat earther or for closing their ears when evidence showed the Earth revolved around the sun? We look back with embarassment at the treatment of Copernicus.

As I have stated earlier in this thread, to believe that Genesis and the Bible are literal is to believe that the sky above us is a solid ceiling called the "firmament". This silly belief has fallen by the wayside over time because its just plain silly. However, people in the time of Copernicus (1500) still believed in it.
 
This is one the most common myths about science that I was taught as a child. Do you think all of those scientists working on new treatments for cancer are closed minded? Are they working on the same treatments they were working on 100 years ago?

Are aids researchers dogmatic drones working the same angles to treat the disease that have previously failed?

You might be surprised to know that even evolution continues to be researched and defined. Evolution itself evolves and Darwin would be surprised to see the version of the theory today.

Science is only considered closed-minded to people who don't want to agree with the results. Whether its people who think the earth is flat, that the sun revolves around the earth, or that a creator made humans magically; science solved the conundrum only to have the results questioned.

In a few hundred years, who wants to be looked down upon historically as a flat earther or for closing their ears when evidence showed the Earth revolved around the sun? We look back with embarassment at the treatment of Copernicus.

As I have stated earlier in this thread, to believe that Genesis and the Bible are literal is to believe that the sky above us is a solid ceiling called the "firmament". This silly belief has fallen by the wayside over time because its just plain silly. However, people in the time of Copernicus (1500) still believed in it.
Notice the absence of any example of even a single issue that was resolved in favor of the divine over the scientific.
 
But who are we to say which is right? Especially when science is continually proven wrong - given enough time.

But its proven wrong by more science - not by religion. It's called progress, get used to it. Thals already put forth this challenge, but its worth repeating - name one time when religion and science were in conflict over the nature of a physical process, and religion won.

Bryan
 
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