Creation vs. Evolution

[deco_martini]

What absolute revisionist claptrap

Deism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not completely.

 

[Marvel]

Deism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not completely.

I'm not saying that deism did not exist. It did & still does today. What I am saying is that the statement Thal made is incorrect as only a cusory examination of the signers of the DofI quickly shows. THAT statement, (which I have heard made out of ignorance* many times) is absloute revisonist claptrap.

*Ignorance is the condition of being uninformed or uneducated, lacking knowledge or information.

 

[Thalassamania]

What absolute revisionist claptrap! I'm sorry, Thal, you have truly disappointed me with this statement. A bit of research easily disproves what you opine. Let's start with defining who the "Founding Fathers" were & then take a look at what is known about them & some of they said.

You're taking small snippets out of context and out of the time frame and context of the time in which they were written. One can likely even find things that I wrote in the last 6,000 pages that would make me look like a believer. I could likely find a hundred quotes in the other direction for every one you turn up like the ones that you posted.

Wise words whether they come form a Christian, a deist, or an atheist.

True, true and as I've said often I'm proud to call you and Mike friend, I know that you mean well and that you remember my in your prayers as I member you both in my intentions.

I just wish you two'd learn to think a little clearer.

*Ignorance is the condition of being uninformed or uneducated, lacking knowledge or information.

Come on. By now you know that I never fit that definition. We can disagree, or agree to disagree, but neither of us is ignorant.

 

[Marvel]

I just wish you two'd learn to think a little clearer.

Funny, my friend- I pray for the same thing for you!

Come on. By now you know that I never fit that definition. We can disagree, or agree to disagree, but neither of us is ignorant.

You're right, Thal- my apologies. I have the utmost respect for you as well. In my haste to get to bed, I omitted underlining the pertinent part of the definition- lack of information. I would encourage you to actually take a look at what the FF's believed, as I have, rather than making such a broad & sweeping statement.

Even if we both concede that Jefferson & Franklin were deists- something that I am not convinced of, they are only 2 of the original 57 signers. I think that I have pointed out enough statements by a few others to substantiate that they were not deists & atheists as you claimed. It's revisionist history at it's finest & I am surprised that you fell for it without actually even looking at the evidence. If those quotes are not sufficient for you, I'll willingly do some more on line research tonight to establish provide you (& others) with more proof to the contrary. Again, it did not take all that long to find the quotes that I did- many of which openly proclaim the name of Jesus Christ & espouse Christianity. I have to wonder how many people have made that same statement without ever reading a word that these men wrote.

 

[Sordello]

 

[Warthaug]

Religion continually wins. The evidence is in the billions of people who attend religious cerimonies each week... while a few thousand scientists work feverishly to prove them all wrong.

You seem to be of the mistaken belief that there is some sort of "war" going on between science and religion. There isn't. Rather, there is a "war" going between a very small number of ignorent fundamentalists and the real world (which doesn't line up with their belief system).

Outside of that small group of fundamentalists, there is no conflict. Most Christian churches accept evolution and all other scientific thoeries, and simply see science as a way to better understand gods world.

You're a small minority, and a minority who's fundamentalist views have been rejected by most Christian dominations.

Not only are you on the loosing side with science, you're on the loosing side of your own faith as well.

Bryan

 

[Warthaug]

Deism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not completely.

I always have to laugh when the different sides in this argument try to claim some historical figure or another as having the same beliefs as them.

Most historical figures we want to claim to our "side" (or, in the case of Darwin, some Christians desperately want to put him on the atheists "side") didn't leave us with enough information to do so. Not to mention, unless they died after WWII, they would have lived in historical periods where even stating doubt in dogma, never mind claiming to be an atheist, would be met with rejection by society, if not criminal charges. Even today there are places in many western nations where publicly stating you are an atheist is met with social rejection, discrimination and harassment.

Only in a few cases are we left with an individuals own thoughts on the matter (Darwin, for example, wrote extensively about his religious beliefs, and how those changed over his life, in his autobiography). Unfortuantly, most historical figures did not, so the best we can do is grasp at straws...

Bryan

 

[Green_Manelishi]

I think that by this time they'd have come up with one if they could. There are none.

Religion starts out from the premise that everything is known (unless they are "mysteries" known only to their god).

What a bunch of horse pucky.

 

[deco_martini]

What a bunch of horse pucky.

Not exactly. In religion, everything that isn't known usually gets attributed to God or gods. Sometimes, they answer the questions with god. Basically, gaps in knowledge are filled with deity or supernatural explanations.

"What is the bright object in the sky?"
"Its a god"

The was Egyptian thinking.

It wasn't so long ago that christians still believed that insanity and illness were caused by demons. The insane were frequently thought to be possessed. We were ignorant of mental illness and disease pathology, so we filled in the gap in our understanding with religion.

Don't even get me started on eclipses.

As time goes by and knowledge replaces superstition, we look back judgmentally at those people who believed that epilepsy was caused by demons. However, in a few hundred years, our descendants will look back the same way at creationists.

 

[timegan]

[QUOTE
As time goes by and knowledge replaces superstition, we look back judgmentally at those people who believed that epilepsy was caused by demons. However, in a few hundred years, our descendants will look back the same way at creationists.[/QUOTE]

Here! Here! As well it wasn't all that long ago parents were blessed with the privilege of having their son/daughter chosen to throw in that volcano.....and hayyyy it rained the next day, so it musta worked right? thats old school science baby...LOL