Creation vs. Evolution

[Soggy]

The only thing that sets homosexuals apart in a Christian church or a Biblical context is their insistance on sinning and that they apparently want to force others to believe the their sin is somhow ok because they happen to like it.

Who defined the sins?

Now comes those crying "discrimination" wanting to change the Bible and dictate how I worship. Or worse, dictate how I speak up and vote. It doesn't work that way.

No, we can't dictate what you believe, how you vote, or how you worship. It just angers some of us that your beliefs harm others who don't share your beliefs.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Edit: Before you comment, I agree that these kinds of organisations are usually banned due to violent behaviour and general nonacceptance by the community, but they just take their discrimination that extra step. There have been murders of abortionists, gay people and others that disagree with Christianity. Those kinds of violent behaviours start because it is encouraged to discriminate in non-violent ways in the beginning. Some people just take it that extra step and that is why I find any kind of discrimination against people for reasons they cannot help, unacceptable and potentially dangerous. You already see gay teenagers killing themselves because it is encouraged by certain sections of society that they are evil and sinful for something they cannot help.

What nonsense. If a person commits suicide, they and only they are responsible.

People have tempers, all sorts of wants, desires, lusts and temptations, yet, they are responsible for what they do.

BTW, you might want to check into the incident rate of violence between pro and anti abortionists and see which side partakes more often. Not that we could consider the killing of an unborn completely helpless child violence now could we.

Live as you please but don't hold others responsible for how it all works out for you.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Who defined the sins?

God.

No, we can't dictate what you believe, how you vote, or how you worship. It just angers some of us that your beliefs harm others who don't share your beliefs.

I don't see how my beliefs harm anyone but if they anger you, you'll have to find a way to get over it.

 

[Gombessa]

Because if you don't go to that church, it has no effect on you. The Girl Scouts won't let me join either but I'm a 49 year old man...Is this age discrimination and gender discrimination?

That's textbook discrimination, both age and gender. The reason it's allowed is because the scouts are private organizations. Remember, discrimination as governed by due process under the 5th amendment applies to the federal government, and equal protection under the 14th amendment applies to the states. As most everyone is aware to some degree or another, there's an enormous body of constitutional law on the subject, particularly about what discrimination is, and *when* and by whom discrimination based on race, gender, and sexual orientation is allowed.

If one doesn't like the policies of a church or a club or whatever, they just go someplace else. I don't see that as discrimination. Being denied employment, a place to live, a seat on a bus, access to civil services, ect...that's discrimination.

If the reason one doesn't "like" the policies of an organization is because the organization treats them differently or excludes them, that is discrimination.

This is all to say that it's very fair to make the original argument that the bible's view of homosexuality as a sin "has been used" as the basis of and has supported discrimination against homosexuality. It happens whenever anyone or any organization practices discriminatory actions and cites the bible (rightly or wrongly, depending on your interpretation) as support for that position. I'm sure other religious and natural principles are used as well, but when it does happen, let's be honest and call a spade a spade.

 

[Sas]

This is all to say that it's very fair to make the original argument that the bible's view of homosexuality as a sin "has been used" as the basis of and has supported discrimination against homosexuality. It happens whenever anyone or any organization practices discriminatory actions and cites the bible (rightly or wrongly, depending on your interpretation) as support for that position. I'm sure other religious and natural principles are used as well, but when it does happen, let's be honest and call a spade a spade.

Hey well said, you've put it much better than I could have Gombessa.

Anyway further to what you have said first Gombessa, private clubs in my country don't get tax breaks, but churches do and do not have to pay any tax and often get other financial concessions. To me, an organisation that is assisted in this manner should not be allowed to discriminate based on age, gender, sexuality, and so on. Basically it means that the entire of society is supporting this organisation via taxes, even if this organisation is discriminating against them. I am happy to pay taxes towards a universal health scheme, for social security and a government to enforce property rights, but not towards organisations that are going to discriminate against me. There are calls for this to change where I live though, so *fingers crossed*.

 

[Soggy]

God.

How do you know? Did he tell you personally?

 

[redacted]

God.


I don't see how my beliefs harm anyone but if they anger you, you'll have to find a way to get over it.

Would that be the same God that created homosexuals?

 

[Gombessa]

I just have to amend my last post with the obvious caveat that the description and legal status of discrimination given apply only to the US. I have to admit guilt to that "ugly American" tendency to sometimes forget the international aspect of the discussion.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Hey well said, you've put it much better than I could have Gombessa.

Anyway further to what you have said first Gombessa, private clubs in my country don't get tax breaks, but churches do and do not have to pay any tax and often get other financial concessions. To me, an organisation that is assisted in this manner should not be allowed to discriminate based on age, gender, sexuality, and so on. Basically it means that the entire of society is supporting this organisation via taxes, even if this organisation is discriminating against them. I am happy to pay taxes towards a universal health scheme, for social security and a government to enforce property rights, but not towards organisations that are going to discriminate against me. There are calls for this to change where I live though, so *fingers crossed*.

On the tax issue, I agree to a point. Organizations that meet the requirements of a "non-profit" don't pay income tax because there is no taxable income.

But, in some states, some organizations are also exempt from property tax. When they don't pay property tax, the rest of us pick up the slack and are essentially supporting them. I don't want to support ANY church or ANY other organization with my taxes. Let those who choose to attend the church support it.

edit: As far as I'm concerned, you should have a say in the running of any organization that you support...if you pay for it, it's yours.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Would that be the same God that created homosexuals?

Yes. The same God that created all things including people whom he instructed not to do certain things, homosexuality being one of them. Of course, in their pride and rebellion people think they know better than God and instist on doing those things anyway.