Creating a dive computer with Location and Communications

[dmaziuk]

NO THERE IS A START UP PROCESS AND STABILAZATION that may take a few days because after all,,,,

That is cool. I don't quite see an average vacay diver me going through a boot sequence like that at a start of a day (and I am an obsessive computer gadget geek), but it is still sooo coool.

 

[dmaziuk]

write a basic program to record the movements sensed and present it as a number of vectors on a screen The start being the entry point and the end being current position relative to the start. After that it will probably take a few years to refine the system but the cost really should be low 200 perhaps. all off he shelf items. only the program will be unique. None of this is communications so the battery issues and low power cpu usage should be ok.

Add a GPS chip (tied to wet sensor so it shuts off in the water) to take fixes topside. The interesting -- in the comp. sci. sense -- exercise will be to fit the logged trajectory to GPS points. Particularly on drift dives...

 

[RonR]

We talked to these folks at DEMA, they seem to have a very sophisticated solution that uses inertial sensing and some very fast processing. ARIADNA.TECH Diver Navigation

Did not seem that it would be cheap, probably aimed at a more professional rather than recreational market.

Anything developed for a market as tiny as diving will end up being expensive, even if it seems it shouldn't be by the standards of other consumer electronics products. The numbers in diving are just very small.

 

[Manjula Ellepola]

Hi Ron, you met then in the last year show? Are they selling units now? Saw 10m accuracy on the site which ain't bad to find your way back to the boat etc

 

[RonR]

Hi Manjula, Yes, we talked to them for a short while. They struck me as very credible and quite sophisticated from a technology standpoint. I didn't think they were on the market with anything yet, but I did get the impression that they had quite a bit of testing in place and seemed to have the product details (displays, connectors, charging, etc.) worked out.

 

[hroark2112]

I wonder how submarines that stay deep for long periods of time navigate. They use sonar to avoid objects but how to navigate?

Ask a qualified submariner. Likely he'll say "I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you!!" or something along those lines. It is part of every submariners qualification process, from the cooks to the guys who make the boat go through the water, to learn how the boat navigates without popping up to the surface to look around.

The first submarine I was on had a "bump in the night" incident with a Russian submarine a few months after I transferred off. Luckily they made it home, but it was pretty touch & go for a while. I talked to a couple of my buddies about it...quite the story!

 

[LandonL]

I disagree with you. There are plenty of successful high end computers now in the $1000-1500 range. With the addition of communication-navigation aid it would compete and sell fine.

I think computer sales numbers for dive computers that cost over $1000 are a lot smaller than most think. At least that has been my experience in the industry thus far. Could they compete with the current market leaders? I doubt it to be honest.

Shearwater is the exception more so than the rule, and to come into a market as an unknown company with a first dive computer and no history in this industry like this company would be difficult. It is a tough sell to offer a piece of equipment that cost up to $1500, doesn't offer air integration, and adds non-essential functions like texting and location.

Given the cost associated with developing such a project, I can pretty much guarantee that the development cost will take years to recover, if it doesn't turn out to be a money loss overall. Every year there are always new concept ideas at DEMA with similar technology, all are prohibitively expensive, and are targeted at commercial or military applications, not recreational.

Well, not so much the physics of it as the current state of the technology. They have technology that allows them to do it. But, the current state of that technology is that it is too big, takes too much power, and is too expensive for recreational divers.

I agree with this and would expand on it for application here. The R&D cost of such systems are prohibitive given the limited market for it. This isn't designing a new Android phone from off-the-shelf components with prebuilt libraries for support. Designing a dive computer is much more intensive on time and resources due to the nature of it almost always being a bare bones project from the ground up. Adding in communication and novel GPS-like tracking services, the need for additional marker boys, etc, and it intensifies this.

 

[Manjula Ellepola]

I think computer sales numbers for dive computers that cost over $1000 are a lot smaller than most think. At least that has been my experience in the industry thus far. Could they compete with the current market leaders? I doubt it to be honest.

If you follow the "Teric" thread, StuartV who works in a dive shop says that SW cannot keep up with the demand and they have a few weeks backlog. The Teric costs USD1,400 with air transmitter. Even people with high end DCs are buying Teric. I think you underestimate the psychology of the market. It is not always only the the utility that people buy. I think Hatul is correct when he says people are already buying DCs around the 1k price mark and by adding more functionality such as nav it should find traction.

Shearwater is the exception more so than the rule, and to come into a market as an unknown company with a first dive computer and no history in this industry like this company would be difficult. It is a tough sell to offer a piece of equipment that cost up to $1500, doesn't offer air integration, and adds non-essential functions like texting and location.

How can you say navigation and messaging is non essential? Sure like 30+ years ago mobile phones were non essential and if you go back far enough telephones were non essential. DCs were non essential until it was invented. People were quite happy to dive with tables but I'm sure the dive was more stressful. DCs came along and some of the stress has been reduced and it is easier for more people to take up diving. Don't you think adding comms and navigation would have a similar beneficial effect? That is making the sport more funner thereby more people taking up the sport and the market growing.

I agree with this and would expand on it for application here. The R&D cost of such systems are prohibitive given the limited market for it. This isn't designing a new Android phone from off-the-shelf components with prebuilt libraries for support. Designing a dive computer is much more intensive on time and resources due to the nature of it almost always being a bare bones project from the ground up. Adding in communication and novel GPS-like tracking services, the need for additional marker boys, etc, and it intensifies this.

To this I say, thankfully there are some amongst us who have vision and are willing to take the risk in the face of failure. Highly recommend the story regarding the inventor of TV. It is an amazing story of a 17year old kid who had the vision to invent something as complex as a TV!

 

[LandonL]

If you follow the "Teric" thread, StuartV who works in a dive shop says that SW cannot keep up with the demand and they have a few weeks backlog.

Yeah, I know @stuartv from here on SB, he is a great guy and we have had great conversations. I know Shearwater had a backlog, but they have caught up now and you can order them without delay.

I think you underestimate the psychology of the market. It is not always only the the utility that people buy.

I do work in the industry at the dive equipment manufacturer level (CIO/partner), so I am basing my comments on my experience in that role, your mileage may vary. Given my experience in the industry, I don't think I am underestimating it, I hope you succeed, but I still think you are overestimating your market.

How can you say navigation and messaging is non essential?

Instant Messaging isn't essential underwater, hand signals work well, as do plastic slates, and both options are definitely more cost effective. Navigation is essential, but has been accomplished for decades with a compass.

Don't you think adding comms and navigation would have a similar beneficial effect?

Full Face Masks with Comms have been around for a while, and you can get one for under $1500 with the comm unit. How well have they been adopted into mainstream recreational diving? I don't know about you, but speaking to someone next to you is much faster and easier than awkwardly typing out a text message to the person next to you while you stare at them. At least that is my thought.

That is making the sport more funner thereby more people taking up the sport and the market growing.

I don't think having the option of underwater texting and location is going to recruit more people to the sport, no.

thankfully there are some amongst us who have vision and are willing to take the risk in the face of failure.

I wish you the best. I would like such a device reasonably priced, I just don't think its feasible given the R&D costs. How many units do you need to sell to make it a viable product? Would a few hundred a year be enough?

 

[Manjula Ellepola]

Yeah, I know @stuartv
Instant Messaging isn't essential underwater, hand signals work well, as do plastic slates, and both options are definitely more cost effective. Navigation is essential, but has been accomplished for decades with a compass.

Hand signals work well with divers next to you...what about the boat captain from 10m or even 1m below? Wow first time some one on SB said "Navigation is essential" thank you sir! I guess decompression is essential and dive tables accomplished this tasks for decades as well.