Cozumel Incident 9/4/11

[boulderjohn]

Ok this was asked about 75 pages ago...........What ARE there actual certifications/qualifications? If anyone knows feel free to let us know. I have seen MANY people refer to the other 2 as DM when in reality I think Gabi is merely a diveguide with no official designate as a "DM".....I would imagine OPAL is a certified instructor and had the correct level of expertise and training required to run a shop.

Many people are confused about these terms and their official use. Here is an explanation of these terms as PADI uses them and the reality of the situation.

Dive Guide: This is not an official PADI term, nor do I think any agency uses it. Anyone can be a dive guide, but to do it professionally one should have professional liability insurance, and someone who does not have a professional certification cannot get liability insurance. There are tons of professionals with proper certification looking for work, and I cannot imagine a shop of this nature using someone who was not professionally certified. It would be a tremendous and completely unnecessary liability risk for a shop to use an uninsured dive guide.

Divemaster: This is the lowest level professional certification. A divemaster is allowed to lead dives and assist in instruction in a very minor role--mostly watching to make sure no one drowns while the instructor is working with individual students. A DM can get and MUST MAINTAIN professional liability insurance covering him or her for accidents that occur while leading dives or assisting in instruction. Since a divemaster is very limited in what can be done, it is common for dive operations to require a higher level of certification for employees so that they can be more versatile.

Assistant Instructor:An assistant instructor is essentially a DM with additional training in instruction who is allowed to do more work while assisting an instructor in class. Not many people have this level of certification because it is only beneficial in unusual situations.

OWSI:An Open Water Scuba Instructor can teach any recreational class and can also lead dives. I would guess that the vast majority of people who work as DMs in resorts are actually at least at this level. Operators prefer this because these people have the ability to teach a class as needed.

MSDT:A Master Scuba Diver Trainer is an OWSI who has certified a number of divers and who has completed the requirements to teach at least 5 specialty classes. Once again, because these people have the ability to teach specialty classes as needed, many of the people who are leading dives under the title of DM in resort areas actually have this much higher level of certification.

In short, I would be stunned if Opal and Gabi were not at the very least officially DMs, and I would not be surprised in the slightest to learn that both are MSDTs.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

See post 824....getting tired of repeating myself.....

... then you should stop repeating yourself.

A certification doesn't make someone a professional ... working in a field for a living does. I think it's well-established that both Gabi and Opal have been doing so, and as such are considered ... rightfully so ... dive professionals.

If you are interested in ascertaining their certification status, please consider contacting someone at PADI and making the inquiry ... I'm fairly certain they have a means for you to find out what the certificaiton status of these two people happens to be.

Your insinuations on this board that these two are not appropriately certified isn't just a violation of the rules for posting here ... since even you admit it's speculation ... it's distasteful.

They showed some very poor judgment ... they're paying a severe price for it. That's the lesson to be taken away by anyone who's still reading this thread. Let's please not obfuscate that message with a lot of inconsequential speculation about what certification cards they may or may not have held. For purposes of discussing the dive and the consequences, it's rather irrelevent.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Mossman]

I know the Marine Park has certain regulations, such as one that limits the number of divers per dive guide to 8. I wonder if these regulations specify who can legally be a dive guide by laying out basic qualifications (i.e. DM certification or higher).

 

[WSOPFAN]

...

A certification doesn't make someone a professional ... working in a field for a living does. I think it's well-established that both Gabi and Opal have been doing so, and as such are considered ... rightfully so ... dive professionals.

If you are interested in ascertaining their certification status, please consider contacting someone at PADI and making the inquiry ... I'm fairly certain they have a means for you to find out what the certificaiton status of these two people happens to be.

I doubt that........

Your insinuations on this board that these two are not appropriately certified isn't just a violation of the rules for posting here ... since even you admit it's speculation ... it's distasteful.

How long are you going to keep putting words in my mouth??????? I NEVER stated any of the 3 were not certified at all. I said nobody has posted here with first hand knowledge of what all 3 of their certifications is. BTW go find where I posted that....

They showed some very poor judgment ... they're paying a severe price for it. That's the lesson to be taken away by anyone who's still reading this thread. Let's please not obfuscate that message with a lot of inconsequential speculation about what certification cards they may or may not have held. For purposes of discussing the dive and the consequences, it's rather irrelevent.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Like I said before........I think it is relevant......you can think what you want but in the future you can avoid making yourself look so foolish by not posting lies you can't prove....


BTW that is the 2nd time you have posted something I did not say.......Feel free to go find your proof of what I posted ....I will be waiting........

 

[WSOPFAN]

In short, I would be stunned if Opal and Gabi were not at the very least officially DMs, and I would not be surprised in the slightest to learn that both are MSDTs.

You would think after 85 pages somebody somewhere could simply verify for sure so we could post correctly when referring to their level of expertise or how much to criticize at all. The point is if 3 people with "C" cards did this most posters would be less critical and chalk it off to a lack of expert training. If 3 certified Tech divers did this posters would be much more critical to the divers for having the training and knowing better but doing it anyway.

 

[boulderjohn]

I doubt that........

PADI will absolutely tell you the professional status of any of its members.

 

[WSOPFAN]

PADI will absolutely tell you the professional status of any of its members.

Did not know that.....It appears maybe Opal could be verified but I was talking about the other 2 divers when referring to posts about 2 DM'S. It is unknown what affiliation either of those 2 have or what level yet people continue to call both of them DM'S.

 

[DandyDon]

Did not know that.....It appears maybe Opal could be verified but I was talking about the other 2 divers when referring to posts about 2 DM'S. It is unknown what affiliation either of those 2 have or what level yet people continue to call both of them DM'S.

You've seemed more interested in criticizing the DM. You can get his legal name at this thread and go check: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/cozumel/397624-ayuda-gabiloco-y-familia.html

I don't know or care what cards Padi gave him, but go for it. You never have explained your real reasons for going after these divers?

 

[RiverRat]

So sad. I have not read every post on this but until all of the details are known, if ever, there is no way to really know for sure what happened to create such a cascade of events. Usually, from what I've seen since I've started diving, is that poor judgement starts the ballrolling. Without straying and going off topic, I've been involved in 3 rescues since I started in the sport. ALL 3 events started from poor judgement and poor decisions, and then, as is often stated, several more events happen in order to snowball into one major event that often, but not always, leads to panic. The first case I ended up taking the diver to the local chamber. Poor lifestyle during that trip (chain smoking, drinking at night etc.) precipitated the whole thing until the last dive of the series. The second event started with basically poor coordination and pre-dive planning leading to an unfamiliar entry point on a shore dive. A "slip" into a hole while gearing up, regs not squared away, to much weight etc. led to me jumping in with everything on, but no fins, to assist. Full panic was about to ensue when I got to the diver. I established positive buoyancy while I was getting "dog paddled", climbed on, until I shouted to control the situation. It's no fun, not even swimming 15-25 feet to shore with 2 divers and no fins on. In the end it all worked out Thank God. The last and most recent issues I was involved in several weeks ago was the result or poor dive planning, by tech divers that should have known better. The plan was a fast river drift (this river can rip at 4 knots plus). Although we had the potential to drop to 180 feet plus, considering we were basically doing "rec" dives on doubles I kept my max depth on the dive to about 140. I saw the others below me and thought to myself "wtf are these guys doing???? I've got kids I'm working my way up...". I don't have all the details on their "plan" but I know some of the details. Basically one diver had computer issues etc. that led him to believe he missed a "lot" of deco. Some crazy signaling ensued and a rapid ascent occurred causing missed stops. Then, as is always the case, panic set in. I surfaced along the wall maybe a few hundred feet from our planned exit point. After awhile I heard the shouts for help from a panicked diver. I shouted back for him to drift down to me because I could not swim against the current. I got enough info and kept talking to him to know he was positively buoyant and that there was a potential "bend" issue. Eventually I made it close to him but had burned most of my remaining air swimming and clawing against the wall fighting current to get to him. I remember saying to myself "I need some air as the waves from the boats kept splashing over me so I had my reg in my mouth thinking " **** this I've got kids". Eventually between me and the boat we got him to swim out (he was hanging onto branches "frozen fear") and we picked him up as we all drifted down river. He got on O2 and was ok. The panic was completely for nothing there wasn't enough BT for deco. I tend to think the panic started underwater and led to the rapid ascent and continued panic at the surface. I can see now how other divers can get hurt when trying to rescue people. Anything can and will happen.Certification doesn't mean squat.
Dive safe and PLAN.

 

[Texas Torpedo]

It is my understanding that neither Opal or Gabi are Instructors.