Cozumel Incident 9/4/11

[MXGratefulDiver]

Thank you.

I think there are just a ton of people here who are just un-aware of the history of this sport.

It wasn't that long ago when dives like this were considered very normal and what you did. Where do they think underwater recompression originated from and why? Opal jumping back in to do it pretty much tells you she's got a lot of this type of diving in her history and she is a student of old school scuba.

I'm baffled how anybody who's been around diving very long hasn't ran into more than a few old divers telling you stories from their good ole days that violate everything being taught today. The history of scuba is filled with deep dives on air. It's not shocking to me to hear about this stuff anymore. The last time I was in Bonaire two of the dive masters with Toucan divers were talking about how many times they have gone to 300 feet on the anchors dive site on air on single tanks, and this after having knocked back a case of beer or a bottle of rum the night before. Just strike up some conversations with enough people who have been diving long enough and you're going to hear about diving this way with little regard to their own safety. This stuff is going on all the time. There is nothing baffeling about it, the only thing baffeling is so many people hearing about it for the first time due to this accident.

(and no Chris, before you reply, I'm not saying it's right or wrong to dive this way, read what I've written two or three times so you understand it before you post saying I'm condoning it and am contributing to killing somebody)

Well, I can remember when it wasn't uncommon for people to drive around with a beer in their hand either ... and tossing the empty beer bottle out the window and grabbing another. It's just what they did back then ... nobody saw anything particularly wrong with it.

"It's what they used to do" is a piss-poor rationalization ... particularly from professionals who should know better ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

We also need to remember that people are dropping to over 300 feet now with NO AIR.. (freedivers), so an 80 does have enough air if "everything" goes perfectly.

Those freedivers have spent years training ... physically and mentally ... for those dives ... and sometimes they still die in the attempt.

Most divers attempting a deep dive on an AL80 would run their bottles empty long before they could manage to surface ... if they even remembered to attempt to surface. When my friend died attempting a 200-foot bounce dive it was because one of his buddies decided it would be a good idea to just sit on the bottom a while ... Chad ended up running out of air at 160 while attempting to pull the fool up with him ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[gypsyjim]

@40 years ago diving was still a pretty darn new sport, without much track record. A lot of stuff was done back then that injuries and deaths proved were unwise.

We have learned a heck of a lot more about the risks, and how to avoid them since I first certified. Just because some folks took some very high risks, and lived to tell the story in the bar, does not change the fact that many others have died doing exactly the same sort of dives, or ended up crippled for life.

A lot has hopefully been learned since those "good old days".

We need to make sure new divers entering this sport understand what increases risk, what sort of dives increase those risks A LOT, and what methods have been learned in the last 30-40-50 years, to reduce those risks.

Any sort of cavalier attitude posted where inexperienced divers might see them as encouraging dives such as the one which resulted in these horrid injuries, are encouraging disaster. In My Opinion, they border on homicidal.

 

[gypsyjim]

Well, I can remember when it wasn't uncommon for people to drive around with a beer in their hand either ... and tossing the empty beer bottle out the window and grabbing another. It's just what they did back then ... nobody saw anything particularly wrong with it.

"It's what they used to do" is a piss-poor rationalization ... particularly from professionals who should know better ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

You mean I was not alone? Just cause I lived to tell stories about our wild and crazy, beer soaked adventures, and how the law often simply shook their heads, and turned their backs, does not change the fact that we were out of control, and dangerous to all we encountered on the highway!
These days I get real cautious if I have only one or two beers in an evening, and have a drive to make.

Heck, in the 70's we also often dived after a beer or two during our SI too, which we now know is a possibly significant contributor to DCS.

 

[Chris Brown Tech]

Im well aware of the history of the sport. Technical diving started with deep air. Look how that worked out for the guys diving on the Andrea Doria in the early days.

My shock and surprise is due to a) A DIVE SHOP OWNER and DIVE PRO's who should know better; and b) My assumption that all this kind of practice was proven to be suicidal back in the 80's and that we had moved on.

If its still going on to the extent that some of you claim, then Im glad I dont move in those circles. My mentors dont do it, my customers dont do it, my friends dont do it and nobody I dive with would even contemplate it.

Bit like crack cocaine eh?

 

[Chris Brown Tech]

Chris - reading comprehension issues? Must we play these games? Seriously now I'm endagering others? Perhaps you failed to read:

No, I read all of it well. Especially your opening comments. The bold text seems to suggest to me that you are in some way rationalizing their behavior. Why mention they have thousands of dives if you dont think its relevant to their ability to do the dive?

You should consider that Opal and Gabi have thousands of dives under their belts, I'd speculate that Opal has done lots of deep dives on air, probably easily in the 200-250 range and possibly closer to 300. This was a routine dive in their minds and when it's routine you don't necessarily be on guard and keep focused.

 

[WSOPFAN]

The female diver was he shop owner
The other 2 a DM and the out of town guest / boyfriend

Ok this was asked about 75 pages ago...........What ARE there actual certifications/qualifications? If anyone knows feel free to let us know. I have seen MANY people refer to the other 2 as DM when in reality I think Gabi is merely a diveguide with no official designate as a "DM".....I would imagine OPAL is a certified instructor and had the correct level of expertise and training required to run a shop.

 

[sealkie]

Ok this was asked about 75 pages ago...........What ARE there actual certifications/qualifications? If anyone knows feel free to let us know. I have seen MANY people refer to the other 2 as DM when in reality I think Gabi is merely a diveguide with no official designate as a "DM"

The dive shop web site lists him as a divemaster

I know someone who has done 1000s of dives and holds no official certification - and I know "dive masters" who can barely function ... certification level is not a true indication of training level or experience

 

[Mike]

No, I read all of it well. Especially your opening comments. The bold text seems to suggest to me that you are in some way rationalizing their behavior. Why mention they have thousands of dives if you dont think its relevant to their ability to do the dive?

"It's what they used to do" is a piss-poor rationalization ... particularly from professionals who should know better ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I haven't rationalized anything. Replys were in response to trying to help somebody understand their disbelief in how someone would do what they did. Explanations of someones behavior does not equal rationalization. It's simply an attempt to understand why, it doesn't condone anything. No where have I once said deep diving on air is a good idea.

A DIVE SHOP OWNER and DIVE PRO's who should know better

I suspect you're a bit naive...

My assumption that all this kind of practice was proven to be suicidal back in the 80's and that we had moved on.

I'm more than a little suspect you're naive...

My mentors dont do it, my customers dont do it, my friends dont do it and nobody I dive with would even contemplate it.

Oh boy, without a doubt you're naive, and sooner or later you're going to be in for a big surprise.

For those who require it - (DISCLAIMER -- No where in the above written word does Mike condone deep diving on air. The above is simply a discussion of the realities of scuba diving and the world we live in. A discussion of the history of scuba, the techniques of other divers does not equal an appreciation of those techniques and is simply...hang on... wait for it....A DISCUSSION)

 

[Ron Lee]

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