Coroners Report. What do you think!

[ScubaWithTurk]

This is simply not true. I teach the CESA horizontally but think doing it vertically is exceptionally nuts given the damage it can and has done to students and instructors. Either you don't understand what I state, or you're intentionally distorting it. There's been enough distortions in our election campaigns: no need to do it here.

It is actually a true statement. I have read and participated in many discussions here where the talk was about ending the CESA altogether. I am not sure why you took this so personally as you were never mentioned. It was a very generic comment about the instructor discussions of the requirement for CESA. Zero distortion.

 

[John the Pom]

I have no trouble believing the "they just vanished" line. On the land, people we are with are on the same plane as we, so if we look away and then look back, they will be there. If we do the same thing in the water, our friend could be just a few feet away but on a different plane, and we won't see them.

As a technical diving instructor, I see something like this all the time. When I have newer students doing complex skills, they will often take their eyes off of me and go through some twists and turns with their bodies as they perform the skill. I need to be sure to be in a good position to intervene in case of a problem, so I end up moving around to maintain that good position. That position is often a tad above them, to prevent an ascent. When they are done with the skill, they will usually be looking around for me until I grab them so they know where I am.

Not long ago, I was doing a basic reef dive with my daughter-in-law and young grandson. At the end of the dive time, I signaled an ascent. My daughter-in-law glanced at her gauges, and in that time she descended a couple of feet. She then looked around in all directions frantically. We had just disappeared! Her beloved son was gone! We were about 8 feet away. If we had been a single buddy who lost buoyancy control, she would never have found us.

Two factors:

• People don't realise how much their field of view narrows underwater
• Everyday experience doesn't condition people to expect vertical movement.

Underwater it takes a conscious effort to scan the full spherical FoV - and too many divers operate on above-water instinct and not rational thought ...

 

[The Chairman]

where the talk was about ending the CESA altogether

Only the vertical CESA is the problem. Why do I take it personally? Because I don't like the argument to be mischaracterized over and over again. I don't know anyone who has suggested that we should not do a horizontal CESA, and I challenge you to find a mention of it.

There's an insidious tendency among a few to attack others who disagree with them passive-aggressively. They do this by mischaracterizing what their opponents really stand for. Then they act all surprised that their comment engenders passion and frustration. It's not too much to ask you to 'get it right', especially after all the times it's been discussed here. It would be just as bad if I were to suggest that some instructors throw caution to the wind and expose their students and themselves to a dangerous outdated practice.

If you feel that there is "zero distortion", then I suggest you go back and re-read those discussions with a more open mind. You obviously missed the point we've been making.

 

[The Chairman]

Two factors:

• People don't realise how much their field of view narrows underwater
• Everyday experience doesn't condition people to expect vertical movement.

Yeah, we're pretty planar even on land. I was hiking with my Boy Scout Troop up in the Appalachian Mountains on some old CCC trails. We were on a pretty narrow pass and my Scoutmaster and I were taking up the rear. There, off to the side, mere inches away from the trail was a Timber Rattlesnake, all coiled up. There was no noise until it realized that we had spotted it. The last Scout who had passed it spun around and cried out in disbelief. All the boys wanted to see it, but the trail was way too narrow. I used a stick to encourage it along before we passed it since it was now agitated.

Yeah, situational awareness often deteriorates under stress. It's important to slow yourself down and do your search slow enough that you don't miss anything.

 

[DandyDon]

I guess this diver didn't know how to do a CESA or think to ditch weights: Shell collector fatality - Thailand

 

[The Chairman]

I guess this diver didn't know how to do a CESA or think to ditch weights: Shell collector fatality - Thailand

Panic kills. They say we either respond to threats with flight or fight, but I think fright needs to be added. People often freeze when they are under threat of death. Unfortunately, it's high on impossible to teach people how to mitigate panic.

 

[jejton]

Sadly, this appears to be common in the Caribbean and even the U.S. Just heard it a month ago in FL.

The other one is crew telling divers to hand up their fins while they are still in the water.

Almost every boat I've dived in south Florida has asked me to hand my fins over before ascending the ladder.

 

[DandyDon]

Almost every boat I've dived in south Florida has asked me to hand my fins over before ascending the ladder.

Yep, common on six-packs. Dumping air in the BCD before beginning the ascent is a dumb attempt at avoiding uncontrolled ascents that simply doesn't work, and on larger boats with roomy decks it's good to hang fins on wrists before climbing, but on a little sixpack but that's be clumsy and dangerous into a six-pack. You just have to be sure you have a good hold on the rope before giving up fins, then hands-free for the up, over, and down climb.

 

[jejton]

Fifteen seconds? You remember exactly how many seconds you look at your gauges at a specific stop during a dive? That seems like an eternity to me. It seems like 'filling in details' tbh

Way to many 'they just vanished' stories heard from someone's 'last buddy'.

That doens't surprise me. I had a couple less than reassuring instabuddy stories and now try really hard to avoid them unless its a dive I am very familiar and comfortable with and there is a divemaster in the water. One of these instabuddies decided I was going to slow for him on a deeper wreck dive and just decided not to wait for me. When I caught up with him, he then decided to a penetration that I was simply not comfortable with (into the large hold of the wreck, with a second opening on the far end that wasnt initially visible from the entryway ). I ended up finishing the dive shortly thereafter and haven't used a boat instabuddy since.

 

[jejton]

Has there been any study as to the correlation with fatal and nonfatal accidents and the type of buddy the diver had - instabuddy, regular diving buddy, solo, etc.