Cornelius 130R build. Questions and design ideas.

[tbone1004]

@Ghost95 can you upload larger size images? They're pretty small.

1-rpm=cfm, pressure is determined by a myriad of things, but if yours is rated at 5000psi you can just tell it to shut off earlier.
It appears yours actually says 2cfm @ 3000psi @5000rpm

2-HP is going to correlate to RPM of the pump and obviously the cfm. Bigger the motor, faster you can go. I do not know what the minimum RPM is on that pump but if it's rated at 2cfm it's going to need a 2hp motor which is a bit big for a standard 110vac pump. You will want to consider using a 3-phase motor with a VFD. This will be a 220vac 3p motor with a vfd that does both inversion and phase conversion. Several threads on here and Youtube videos of people doing this with lathes and what not. If the pump will run with variable speeds it will also let you slow down the pump if you are tripping breakers.

3-the lower the RPM of the motor the more torque it will have. A 1hp motor rated at 1800rpm is the same physical size as a 2hp motor rated at 3600rpm. Lower RPM motors are more expensive and for this application there isn't a great reason to use the smaller motors.

4-read this

Compressor Filter System Theory - Scuba Engineer

High Pressure Breathing Air Compressor Filtration System Design author:- Stephen E Burton BSc(hons) C.Eng, MIET - Email to:- scubaengineer@gmail.com

www.scubaengineer.com

do NOT skimp on filters or coalescers. Do not use old stuff, these are high pressure vessels and unlike with hydraulics where a failure is just annoying, a failure on these can kill you. It happened last year to a buddy of mine who runs a dive shop, don't skimp on these things.
Scuba tanks are easy to make out of a single piece of metal in basically a 3-step process with a single machined end. Manufacturing filter towers that need to open, have multiple machined fittings, are machined themselves instead of pressed out of a single piece of metal, etc. all makes them vastly more expensive to make. Seriously though, don't get old coalescers or filters, it's super risky.


If the pump can run happily at 3600rpm *I think these are all oil pumps not splash lubricated so should be fine* and you are ok with it being about 1.3-1.4cfm, then I would honestly just direct drive it with a lovejoy coupling and not worry about having to deal with pulleys and belts but that's just me.

 

[Ghost95]

@Ghost95 can you upload larger size images? They're pretty small.

1-rpm=cfm, pressure is determined by a myriad of things, but if yours is rated at 5000psi you can just tell it to shut off earlier.
It appears yours actually says 2cfm @ 3000psi @5000rpm

2-HP is going to correlate to RPM of the pump and obviously the cfm. Bigger the motor, faster you can go. I do not know what the minimum RPM is on that pump but if it's rated at 2cfm it's going to need a 2hp motor which is a bit big for a standard 110vac pump. You will want to consider using a 3-phase motor with a VFD. This will be a 220vac 3p motor with a vfd that does both inversion and phase conversion. Several threads on here and Youtube videos of people doing this with lathes and what not. If the pump will run with variable speeds it will also let you slow down the pump if you are tripping breakers.

3-the lower the RPM of the motor the more torque it will have. A 1hp motor rated at 1800rpm is the same physical size as a 2hp motor rated at 3600rpm. Lower RPM motors are more expensive and for this application there isn't a great reason to use the smaller motors.

4-read this

Compressor Filter System Theory - Scuba Engineer

High Pressure Breathing Air Compressor Filtration System Design author:- Stephen E Burton BSc(hons) C.Eng, MIET - Email to:- scubaengineer@gmail.com

www.scubaengineer.com

do NOT skimp on filters or coalescers. Do not use old stuff, these are high pressure vessels and unlike with hydraulics where a failure is just annoying, a failure on these can kill you. It happened last year to a buddy of mine who runs a dive shop, don't skimp on these things.
Scuba tanks are easy to make out of a single piece of metal in basically a 3-step process with a single machined end. Manufacturing filter towers that need to open, have multiple machined fittings, are machined themselves instead of pressed out of a single piece of metal, etc. all makes them vastly more expensive to make. Seriously though, don't get old coalescers or filters, it's super risky.


If the pump can run happily at 3600rpm *I think these are all oil pumps not splash lubricated so should be fine* and you are ok with it being about 1.3-1.4cfm, then I would honestly just direct drive it with a lovejoy coupling and not worry about having to deal with pulleys and belts but that's just me.

Thanks for the reply. If I put 5000 psi somewhere it was a typo. The Data plate does say 2 cfm, 3000 psi, 5000 rpm.

And sorry about the small pictures. I'm on a horrible satellite internet connection. If I can update pictures later I'll add bigger ones. I imagine that if someone is on a phone the pics are just about worthless.

Now, Belt Drive. Every conversion I've seen with these compressors has been done using belts. I don't know if that's because of the way the cooling fan is attached or what but every single one that I have seen is belt driven. They've also been driven by 110v motors (or lawn mower engines with belts). I know the 32 R compressors have been using 1/2 hp motors for their power. There is a neat thread on here that someone did (title My Compressor Build) that was turning in the 6000rpm range. Clearly still a lot of research to do here.

As for the Kidde separator, I need to get more info on those. Were they new take offs or run for years somewhere? It's the cycles that kill aluminum right? I'll have to see what I can find out. I have a healthy respect for high pressure gas. Even if I'm only running to 2800 psi that's still a lot of boom potential.

Any suggestions on a source for small moisture separators for a 2 cfm compressor?

 

[tbone1004]

@Ghost95 no worries, thankfully I have big monitors and was able to decipher.

You need to belt drive if you want to run at 5000rpm, no getting around that, but it may make things easier to direct drive, doesn't really matter to the pump as long as you can get the couplings to fit.

Cycles matter, not sure age matters much on those but this is what I would personally get. The -110 is $100 cheaper with a filter about the same size as the coalescer and is rated at 13k cf vs 26k cf. It's not cheap, but it has a coalescer, filter, gauge, OPV, PMV, check valves, etc. all built in and it's a one stop shop.

Lawrence Factor Standard Purifier System AF-531-111-F

The AF-531-111-F Lawrence Factor Purifier is designed to be a complete breathing air filtration system for a high-pressure air compressor system.

filtertechs.com

With that you'd only need a separator for the second stage and a whip.

Oh, highly recommend a Solberg silencer which will help quiet it down a bit.

 

[Ghost95]

@Ghost95 no worries, thankfully I have big monitors and was able to decipher.

You need to belt drive if you want to run at 5000rpm, no getting around that, but it may make things easier to direct drive, doesn't really matter to the pump as long as you can get the couplings to fit.

Cycles matter, not sure age matters much on those but this is what I would personally get. The -110 is $100 cheaper with a filter about the same size as the coalescer and is rated at 13k cf vs 26k cf. It's not cheap, but it has a coalescer, filter, gauge, OPV, PMV, check valves, etc. all built in and it's a one stop shop.

Lawrence Factor Standard Purifier System AF-531-111-F

The AF-531-111-F Lawrence Factor Purifier is designed to be a complete breathing air filtration system for a high-pressure air compressor system.

filtertechs.com

With that you'd only need a separator for the second stage and a whip.

Oh, highly recommend a Solberg silencer which will help quiet it down a bit.

Wow! That sure is a pretty filter setup. Ouch. I'm afraid that's way overkill for what I'm doing. I'm looking at a max of 6000 cf per year and thats pushing it. I'm afraid I'd just be wasting filter media with that large a setup. Trying to rig that to this little portable compressor would be difficult and still keep it portable. The compressor is only about the size of a basketball. Rigged as is it had no second stage separator. The only separator was after the 3rd stage. From what I can see, the diving versions had the separator and filter in the same housing. I know things have changed over the years so I'll have to continue research with how these conversions were done and try and make little additions to modernize it a little.

Please don't let it sound like I'm disregarding your info but I think I need to find a more size/capacity appropriate solution.

Thanks for the info and ideas. Keep them coming.

 

[tbone1004]

The smaller version is 18Lx5wx22h, it doesn't get much more portable than that for a filtration system and it could easily mount to whatever base you put the pump and motor on. Weighs 50lbs, but they're all going to be pretty heavy.
You don't need to replace the media that frequently, but they're $70 or so and I'd say you can safely do that once per year.

The MCH6 filter is rated at 1800cf per Lawrence Factor under standard conditions and costs about $36, so you'd be going through about 4 of those per year and I personally wouldn't have an issue letting a filter cartridge go for a year with intermittent use like that so long as it's taken care of.

Either way, run the numbers, you know that a full setup where all you need to do is hook up the pump and whips is $2600 with a single filter change per year and is fully assembled as a single unit that will bolt right onto whatever frame you go with. You can probably save a bit of money if you DIY it, but you aren't going to save much space and I'd be surprised if it's a significant amount of money, especially once you look at long term costs with filters costing over $100 more/year

 

[Ghost95]

Question 5:

Cleaning

As these Cornelius compressors are surplus, and even the breathing air ones used mineral oil back in the day, how do you clean for synthetic? I think Mobil Jet II or something like that is recomended.

Do you clean by run, drain, fill with synthetic, run for an hour, drain/fill/repeat for a few times or is a total tear down required?

 

[BRT]

@Ghost95 no worries, thankfully I have big monitors and was able to decipher.

You need to belt drive if you want to run at 5000rpm, no getting around that, but it may make things easier to direct drive, doesn't really matter to the pump as long as you can get the couplings to fit.

Cycles matter, not sure age matters much on those but this is what I would personally get. The -110 is $100 cheaper with a filter about the same size as the coalescer and is rated at 13k cf vs 26k cf. It's not cheap, but it has a coalescer, filter, gauge, OPV, PMV, check valves, etc. all built in and it's a one stop shop.

Lawrence Factor Standard Purifier System AF-531-111-F

The AF-531-111-F Lawrence Factor Purifier is designed to be a complete breathing air filtration system for a high-pressure air compressor system.

filtertechs.com

With that you'd only need a separator for the second stage and a whip.

Oh, highly recommend a Solberg silencer which will help quiet it down a bit.

I have run an 1800 rpm motor over 5000...just saying.

 

[tbone1004]

I have run an 1800 rpm motor over 5000...just saying.

Military 400hz generator? or crazy VFD? Most are limited to 90hz or 120hz for overspeed

I'll rephrase, there is no practical way to run a 3600rpm AC motor at 5000rpm without doing using a VFD to get from 60hz up to 80ish hz, or in the case of the 1800rpm motor almost 200hz *which most won't let you run that far of an overspeed because Uncle Sam says no*. It's not that smart to do it. You do lose considerable torque when you do that though, so you have to ramp up to that speed if you are using a compressor, definitely can't switch straight to it.

 

[Gone for diving]

I have run an 1800 rpm motor over 5000...just saying.

I assume with a VDF, ?

I would pick a 3600 rpm motor
Before a 1800 rpm,

 

[BRT]

Military 400hz generator? or crazy VFD? Most are limited to 90hz or 120hz for overspeed

I'll rephrase, there is no practical way to run a 3600rpm AC motor at 5000rpm without doing using a VFD to get from 60hz up to 80ish hz, or in the case of the 1800rpm motor almost 200hz *which most won't let you run that far of an overspeed because Uncle Sam says no*. It's not that smart to do it. You do lose considerable torque when you do that though, so you have to ramp up to that speed if you are using a compressor, definitely can't switch straight to it.

Ran it on a VFD at 180hz. Yaskawa drive. Worked great. Never gave any trouble. Destacking lumber for a planer. Bump up a layer, bump up a layer...when the unit of lumber was gone, hit the down and run the 1800 rpm motor to 180 hz to get the forks down in a hurry for another unit. Holding the up pedal would max at 90 hz because it just didn't have the horsepower to lift it faster but the unit of lumber could be raised to drop the first layer quickly. Fed it through a 40-1 worm gear drive and used DC injection for each stop. Once stopped the 40-1 Radicon would not rotate under gravity so avoided any brake.