Considering drysuit diving, any advice would be welcome...

[tomfcrist]

(null)

You had to add 20 pounds to dive the fusion bullet? That is very odd, considering mine dives like a 5mil....I dive single tank with mine and 16 pounds total, and that is steel tank and a zeagle ranger. I'm assuming you have way too much air in that suit.

 

[Dive-aholic]

After much deliberation, I tentatively decided to go with Whites Fusion, now choosing between the Tech, Bullet, or Sport, and the various options.

1) What exactly is the nature of the reduced mobility problem with Bullet, is it due to the preinstalled hard neck collar/ring being stiff, and restricting your arm movement, or is it due to the increased thickness of the outer skin and limited ability to stretch, or yet something else? Just based on the looks, it's not really clear to me why the mobility of Bullet vs. Tech should be that much different. Both of these skins seem soft. Did anyone try adding the collar to the Tech (or Sport), and experienced the same mobility issues with it during the dive, or is it really the skin being thicker?

I've had a couple of students with the hard neck ring and they cannot stand it. One is trying to sell his suit because it bothers him so much.

2) I'm thinking of getting the hard neck collar with easily replaceable silicone seals, is maintenance cost the main advantage? How often did you damage your latex seals? The hard collar seems quite a bit uncomfortable and restricting, does having a silicone instead of latex on your neck offset the discomfort of that stiff collar during the actual dive?

3) Have you used dry gloves and/or a hood that attaches to your neck collar/ring? Which ones worked for you?

4) Do you recommend getting a P valve? I've been told by LDS that ordering it is not too common, due to a possibility of failure. What are the pros/cons?

You might want to visit a different LDS. A p valve is the only way to go with a dry suit and anyone that tells you different is not doing very long dives or doesn't have much experience in dry suits. Yes, p valves fail. And yes, dry suits can be washed. The advantage of having a p valve far outweighs the possible disadvantage. It's been years since I've had a p valve failure. But I pee several times during each dive. The p valve allows me to stay well hydrated and not have to hold it in.

 

[tajkd]

Thanks for the feedback. I wouldn't have chosen the Fusion as I didn't care for the donning process. That said, it is surprising the amount of lead you need. I'd bet that will change over time. It sounds like you are already enjoying the best part of dry diving. No freezing at all, at any time.

 

[TravisD]

You had to add 20 pounds to dive the fusion bullet? That is very odd, considering mine dives like a 5mil....I dive single tank with mine and 16 pounds total, and that is steel tank and a zeagle ranger. I'm assuming you have way too much air in that suit.

I'm 6' and nearly 300lbs in a 4x bullet. With the Thermal Fusion undies, there's a LOT of air space in there. I've tried less weight, but just couldn't sink it. That said, It's entirely possible that with more experience I could use less. I have about a dozen dives on it this year, and by most accounts it takes about 50 to get completely comfortable. Darn, guess I have to get out and dive more

 

[TSandM]

That amount of weight in water as cold as described doesn't surprise me at all. I dive between 31 and 35 pounds of total ballast (including backplate) depending on the undergarment I'm wearing. If Travis is diving the Whites MK3 UG, his numbers would make total sense. That's a very floaty undergarment!

I found a significant difference in mobility between the Tech and Bullet skins. The Lycra in the Tech skin just doesn't restrict the way the Bullet skin does. I wish it weren't true, because my Bullet skin is the most beautiful, screaming red color -- for me not to dive it, I had to dislike it fairly intensely.

 

[kr2y5]

I found a significant difference in mobility between the Tech and Bullet skins. The Lycra in the Tech skin just doesn't restrict the way the Bullet skin does.

Could you please clarify, are you using the neck ring system with your Fusion Tech, and that does not restrict your mobility? Sorry if this was mentioned earlier, but I'm a bit confused... I'm trying to determine if adding the neck ring system to the Sport or Tech makes sense, or whether it's going to eliminate the benefits in terms of mobility (my worry is that, what I envision the word "mobility" would translate to in practice may be very different from what you actually meant to say).

The reason for my confusion is that I had a chance to try Bullet in the LDS, with the neck ring system installed, and if there was one thing I noticed about mobility (to the extent, to which I understand what it means), it was the neck ring getting in the way when reaching across my shoulder. I could feel that my movement is creating tension on the plastic, or whatever it was made of, and causing it to bend inside. By touch, the skin didn't seem that thick. While wearing the suit, I could actually reach back to where my valve would be even with the ring getting in the way (albeit with some effort), I could do half-squats, reach for my toes, but maybe this would be very different with thick undergarments, air pumped into the suit, BP/W with doubles on my back, and in the water, I couldn't really tell, and I couldn't tell if it's more about the skin or the neck ring that's bound to cause trouble. Since I've never experienced restricted mobility and have no point for comparison, I might as well be hallucinating, and blaming the neck ring for no reason.

My confusion is compounded by the fact that I've never seen (and consequently, never had a chance to try) a Bullet without a neck ring installed, or Sport or Tech with the neck ring.

 

[TSandM]

The neck ring DEFINITELY affects mobility to a significant degree. When I first tried the Fusion dry suit, I went out in my doubles and did a valve drill and ended up doubled over, giggling, because it was so darned trivial. Once I installed the neck ring on my suit, reaching the isolator became sufficiently difficult that I actually had to change undergarments to gain enough reach to get it. It was a great disappointment, since the mobility was one of the biggest selling points of the suit for me. However, I kill neck seals, getting only about six months from one, so sending a suit in every six months for repair wasn't an attractive option, either. My Santi suit, which does NOT have the neck ring, has already been back for seals, and it's only a little over six months old.

For people diving single tanks, I don't think the neck ring will affect much, except making it perhaps a little more difficult to reach the dump valve on a dry suit. If you're broad-chested, you may not even notice that very much. For smaller folks, where the ring sits almost out over the groove between the ball of the humerus and the collarbone, that ring is going to be VERY noticeable.

I'm comparing suit with ring and Tech skin with suit with ring and Bullet skin when I talk about the loss of flexibility in the Bullet.

 

[Dive-aholic]

The neck ring DEFINITELY affects mobility to a significant degree. When I first tried the Fusion dry suit, I went out in my doubles and did a valve drill and ended up doubled over, giggling, because it was so darned trivial. Once I installed the neck ring on my suit, reaching the isolator became sufficiently difficult that I actually had to change undergarments to gain enough reach to get it. It was a great disappointment, since the mobility was one of the biggest selling points of the suit for me. However, I kill neck seals, getting only about six months from one, so sending a suit in every six months for repair wasn't an attractive option, either. My Santi suit, which does NOT have the neck ring, has already been back for seals, and it's only a little over six months old.

You should try a neoprene neck seal. I usually kill neck seals too. The neck seal on my year old, 200 dive SEAC Warm Dry is still keeping water out, even when I move my head around. My old neoprene suits didn't even last that long!

 

[boulderjohn]

Thanks for the feedback. I wouldn't have chosen the Fusion as I didn't care for the donning process. That said, it is surprising the amount of lead you need. I'd bet that will change over time. It sounds like you are already enjoying the best part of dry diving. No freezing at all, at any time.

That amount of weight in water as cold as described doesn't surprise me at all. I dive between 31 and 35 pounds of total ballast (including backplate) depending on the undergarment I'm wearing. If Travis is diving the Whites MK3 UG, his numbers would make total sense. That's a very floaty undergarment!

The choice of undergarment makes a big difference. When I dive with my Fusion, I usually use the MK2 garment, sometimes with the vest as well. I don't need a lot of weight. When I went to Seattle, I expected things to be cold, so I brought my MK3 UG, which I had never used before. As Lynne will no doubt testify, I didn't think there was enough lead in Seattle to sink me. I didn't need that much suit, either. With water temperatures in the high 40s and my wearing the MK3s and a White's Heat hood, I was sweating at the end of a one hour night dive.