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Conception

Discussion in 'Accidents & Incidents' started by lexvil, May 4, 2020.

  1. Ken Kurtis

    Ken Kurtis Contributor

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: Beverly Hills, CA
    1,505
    1,787
    Excellent question Bob and I don't know but it's something I hope to inquire about somewhat discretely. (And this isn't mean to imply that any of the rescue divers did anything wrong or nefarious.)

    My impression of a body bag is that it should be just that - a body and anything attached to the body (so clothes, shoes being worn, etc.). The cell phone and flashlight were apparently in the hand of each victim, so that seems logical/appropriate. But for four of the victims, the shoes sound like they were not on the feet but were loose in the bag. The two things that really stand out in my mind after reading all the reports were the inclusion of a backpack full of clothes that the person apparently was not wearing (19-11433) and a portable lamp for an other person (19-11438).
     
    danddmiller1 and Bob DBF like this.
  2. bowlofpetunias

    bowlofpetunias Oh no, not again! ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Sydney Australia
    12,685
    6,147
    Different countries have different rules and protocols so I am not sure how valid my insights will be here.

    When we were trained on how to function in a crime scene we were told anything we used in providing care prior to determination of death became part of the evidence if it was put down anywhere except back in the kits we brought with us. The reason was that if we say a discarded bandage package on the floor then picked it up it might also have evidence attached. We also had to set and stay on a specific entry exit pathway so as not to further contaminate the scene. Normally when we were cleared to remove the body we did not include anything that wasn't actually attached to the deceased. That was the protocol at stable,controlled scenes.

    When the scene is not stable I would think evidence would need to be handled differently to maintain integrity of the evidence chain. It seems reasonable to me that in a situation such as this with different people collecting the bodies you may have a person decide to include/secure an item just in case it was relevant due to location. Perhaps they felt the condition of the backpack and contents or shoes or lamp may provide information about the fire or the last location/actions of the nearby deceased. It doesn't strike me as terribly unusual that things might be done slightly differently by the people at such a tragic event "just in case". With the boat moving then sinking, rolling and being subject to the action of the ocean the window for collection of evidence was to say the least unusual so may reasonably trigger someone to different actions.
     
    Bob DBF and O-ring like this.
  3. danddmiller1

    danddmiller1 Registered

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Santa barbara
    20
    8
    Thats the same for me. I always found others up in the saloon, out on deck. I would find it unusual that everyone would be all sleeping.
     
    Bob DBF likes this.
  4. chillyinCanada

    chillyinCanada ScubaBoard Supporter Staff Member ScubaBoard Supporter

    31,613
    21,065
    I fall asleep with my cell phone in my hand more often than not. But not a flashlight.

    I haven't been on a Truth boat or another like it but I've done plenty of camping and wearing every piece of clothing I own has not been in the least unusual. Never flip flops though.

    I'm going to reread the report.
     
    shoredivr likes this.
  5. Bob DBF

    Bob DBF Solo Diver

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: NorCal
    11,137
    17,379
    I believe it was the last night of the trip, so being tired may have kicked in.

    My routine on the SoCal boats was hitting the rack at 10 or 11, up around 2 for 1/2 to an hour, then up at 5, which was my usual anyway. I’d find out the procedure for making coffee, if I didn’t already know it, then make it every morning before the cook came in to make breakfast, and when he was busy during the morning.

    Sometimes I’d run into the crew or other divers when up, other times not.
     
    danddmiller1 likes this.
  6. ohpointybid

    ohpointybid New

    # of Dives: None - Not Certified
    Location: CT
    4
    2
    I read each of the coroner reports. My heart aches for the victims and their families. I don’t feel it’s fair for me to comment on any conclusions but a question came to mind.

    If many or most would have been sleeping in or on sleeping bags, even in spite of remains being displaced wouldn’t there have been fabric or melting evidence left?

    (The question may make more sense if you have read any of the reports. They are not easy reads by any means.)
     
    danddmiller1 likes this.
  7. O-ring

    O-ring Beyond the Pale ScubaBoard Supporter

    5,466
    507
    We know there were still recognizable clothing remnants of various textiles due to the descriptions in the coroner reports so it stands to reason that sleeping bag material would also survive. If it was cold enough to sleep in Uggs it certainly seems reasonable it would be cold enough to be in a sleeping bag.
     
    danddmiller1 and ohpointybid like this.
  8. lexvil

    lexvil Contributor

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: jamestown, ca.
    4,487
    4,376
    Logic would seem to dictate that but until you try getting “into” a sleeping bag in the allotted space, it would be impossible for me, in that space. Laying on my back I could not bend my leg far enough to do more than turn myself, even getting the fleece blanket to cover me was hard, so I wore warm clothes. I don’t know for sure but I have been on these boats many times.
     
  9. MaxBottomtime

    MaxBottomtime Divemaster

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: Torrance, CA
    9,630
    10,292
    I don't recall anyone bringing a sleeping bag aboard any SoCal boat I've been on, although it could be possible. I find it too hot to sleep below deck most nights. This happened on Labor Day, so I would have been sweating under a blanket or in a sleeping.bag.
     
  10. O-ring

    O-ring Beyond the Pale ScubaBoard Supporter

    5,466
    507
    Anybody know what the temp was? I'm trying to reconcile it being so cold that people were sleeping in Uggs yet it might have been so hot that any kind of blanket or sleeping bag would have been unbearably hot. It would be really interesting to know if any of the passengers brought sleeping bags on board, but it sounds like that wasn't too common based on what @lexvil posted.
     
    danddmiller1 and ohpointybid like this.

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