Conception Captain Found Guilty of Manslaughter

[Oldmanmatt]

The only guy on the thread with marine firefighting experience says that it was probably fightable, though possibly with gear they didn’t have. But nobody knew how to use the firefighting gear or even where it was. I’m not sure anyone knew how to start the fire pumps other than possibly the captain.

Ok, I’m (or was) a Merchant Navy Chief Engineer, Royal Navy before that, spent many years as a Super Yacht Captain. A Marine Surveyor (through Lloyds Register), and a UK Small Craft Surveyor. Currently the Technical and Engineering Director for a large shipyard in Dubai. I design and build Super Yachts greater than 500 tons/50 m. I have to re qualify as a Firefighter, up to Command and Control level, every five years to maintain my Certificate of Competence. I’ve now been through the NTSB and ATF reports.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/MAR2003.pdf

Normal provisos regarding inaccuracies of judgments based on forum thread “evidence” apply.

I don’t believe they had any chance of fighting the fire at the point of discovery.

As I said on the other thread, I’m appalled:
At the lack of regulation.
That all escape routes from the bunk deck, lead to the same compartment, none to the exterior.
That the compartment the escape routes lead to, contained the Galley.
That anyone insured the damn thing.
That people think it’s normal.
Sprinkler systems and Fire detection systems are cheap and simple, seriously, WTF.

I hope people vote with their feet and wallets and go with the operators who have a least the minimum of integrity.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

Quick Summary of some of the key points.

• A roving night watch is required by regulations, and they never used one.
• The crew was not trained in firefighting or the use of the specific firefighting equipment on board, as is required by regulations. The report said that in the chaos of the fire, a crewman ran past hoses that could have been used several times but did not know about them.
• The captain supposedly did not wake up until flames were 15 feet high. That is when he made the mayday call and then jumped off the ship.
• The only way out of the bunk room for the passengers was through the fire. The supposed second emergency exit was really nonfunctional and led to the same room as the primary exit.
• A passenger's cell phone recovered after the fire had a video in which the passengers are in the bunk room getting dressed, talking about the fire, and trying to find a way out. A voice can he heard saying they were all going to die. The video was made 15 seconds after the captain's mayday call and exit of the ship.A

Wait, a passenger took video when everyone was trapped below? and the phone and video survived? If true then everyone knew they were going to die.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

Ok, I’m (or was) a Merchant Navy Chief Engineer, Royal Navy before that, spent many years as a Super Yacht Captain. A Marine Surveyor (through Lloyds Register), and a UK Small Craft Surveyor. Currently the Technical and Engineering Director for a large shipyard in Dubai. I design and build Super Yachts greater than 500 tons/50 m. I have to re qualify as a Firefighter, up to Command and Control level, every five years to maintain my Certificate of Competence. I’ve now been through the NTSB and ATF reports.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/MAR2003.pdf

Normal provisos regarding inaccuracies of judgments based on forum thread “evidence” apply.

I don’t believe they had any chance of fighting the fire at the point of discovery.

As I said on the other thread, I’m appalled:
At the lack of regulation.
That all escape routes from the bunk deck, lead to the same compartment, none to the exterior.
That the compartment the escape routes lead to, contained the Galley.
That anyone insured the damn thing.
That people think it’s normal.
Sprinkler systems and Fire detection systems are cheap and simple, seriously, WTF.

I hope people vote with their feet and wallets and go with the operators who have a least the minimum of integrity.

I was on the Conception on a multi day trip 8 months before this approximately. Truth Aquatics was really the only multi day scuba trip operation for CA. At the time I took the trip I had no idea they were taking such risks. Now there are no other options except for I believe the other renamed vessels that were truth aquatics boats.

They were basically it if you wanted an over night scuba trip. Now I dont see anyone investing in the same type of trips in CA as they would need to build new scuba boats from the ground up. Too large an investment for too little gain im guessing.

 

[berndo]

That all escape routes from the bunk deck, lead to the same compartment, none to the exterior.
That the compartment the escape routes lead to, contained the Galley.
That anyone insured the damn thing.

I'm surprised you can legally operate a comercial boat without any emergency exits in the US, let alone a boat people sleep on... IIRC even the old sh!tty day boats in Egypt usually had an escape hatch somewhere in the front of the boat.

 

[boulderjohn]

Wait, a passenger took video when everyone was trapped below? and the phone and video survived? If true then everyone knew they were going to die.

Here is a newspaper quote from the day the case went to the jury. I misremembered how long after the captain's mayday call the video was made. It was 3 minutes, not 15 seconds. It gives an idea how long the crew had to fight the fire and save the victims, if they had known how the firefighting equipment worked.

Families of the Conception victims have filled the courtroom in downtown Los Angeles during the eight-day trial, the testimony punctuated by the sound of their stifled weeping. For the families, one of the hardest pieces of evidence to bear was the 24-second video taken from the iPhone of Patricia Ann Beitzinger, an Arizona woman who died on the boat.​

She took the video at 3:17 a.m., three minutes after Boylan’s mayday call. The video, played early in the trial and again Friday, shows the dark outlines of people trapped in the bunk room as the fire approaches. The voices are muffled and difficult to hear, but prosecutors supplied a transcript to jurors:​

“There’s got to be a way out...”​

“There’s got to be more extinguishers...”​

“We’re gonna die...”​

​

Edit: It is impossible to imagine the horror of their deaths.

 

[Tripp]

18 U.S. Code § 1115 - Misconduct or neglect of ship officers

Every captain, engineer, pilot, or other person employed on any steamboat or vessel, by whose misconduct, negligence, or inattention to his duties on such vessel the life of any person is destroyed, and every owner, charterer, inspector, or other public officer, through whose fraud, neglect, connivance, misconduct, or violation of law the life of any person is destroyed, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

When the owner or charterer of any steamboat or vessel is a corporation, any executive officer of such corporation, for the time being actually charged with the control and management of the operation, equipment, or navigation of such steamboat or vessel, who has knowingly and willfully caused or allowed such fraud, neglect, connivance, misconduct, or violation of law, by which the life of any person is destroyed, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Per the above, the Captain was certainly guilty. I wonder, upon reading the statute, whether they now will also go after the owner.

 

[berndo]

At the time I took the trip I had no idea they were taking such risks.

This might not be in the American spirit but IMHO the government should have some minimum consumer protection standard... like youself, not everybody knows or thinks of stuff like this. Not needing to have emergency exits by law on a boat like this sounds nucking futs.

 

[Cthippo]

As I said on the other thread, I’m appalled:
At the lack of regulation.
That all escape routes from the bunk deck, lead to the same compartment, none to the exterior.
That the compartment the escape routes lead to, contained the Galley.
That anyone insured the damn thing.
That people think it’s normal.
Sprinkler systems and Fire detection systems are cheap and simple, seriously, WTF.

I hope people vote with their feet and wallets and go with the operators who have a least the minimum of integrity.

It's a feature of American Capitalism that the economic benefit of companies being regulates is considered at least as important as the safety benefit to the public. If the Coast Guard creates regulations that economically damage existing businesses, i.e. requiring sprinklers and fire detection systems on existing boats, then they get a lot of political pushback at a minimum, and may end up in court for years over it. instead they say "well, these rules only apply to new build boats and those undergoing "major refurbishment" and everyone else can ignore them". What ends up happening is that there are no new build boats because they can't compete with the exempt boats and the actual in-service boats are unsafe.

 

[berndo]

Apparently, the industry is trying to redeem our image. I'm not sure what this initiative is calling for... https://www.dema.org/page/DIVEBOATActResourceCenter

Not very smart to call it dive boat act. It should be boat safety act or something else more general. Nobody - other than divers - cares about dive boats. It's a tiny tiny niche.

 

[boulderjohn]

Not needing to have emergency exits by law on a boat like sounds nucking futs.

Oh, an emergency exit was required, and they did have one. Let me describe it.

They had triple decker bunks, with the top bunk a couple feet from the ceiling. One of the bunks had a trap door in the ceiling above it. To get all 32 passengers through it, they would have had to (one by one) crawl up over the edge of the top bunk and twist their bodies to get up through the trap door. When they got through it, they would have found themselves in the same room as the people going out the primary exit.

The Coast Guard inspected it and decided that it was just fine as an emergency exit. I am sure if they had tested it, they would have found that 32 passengers would have been able to get through it in no more than an hour or two.