Completed OW where next...

[halocline]

You have a great attitude towards learning, I'm sure you will enjoy your classes. It may be too late, but some places will offer an "advanced nitrox" combo (something like that) which is not the advanced use of enriched air, it's AOW and nitrox combined for a better price than the two separately. You might look into it.

I would not recommend the PADI equipment course. During my PADI training I found that their materials on equipment were not very good, and in some cases I disagreed with the information. You're way better off just checking out the equipment forums here on SB, getting the Vance Harlow book on regulators, and having a look atwhat tech divers are using for gear. Generally speaking they're way ahead of the standard rec crowd with regards to equipment, because tech diving is much more equipment dependent and the gear is more specialized.

PADI designed AOW to immediately follow OW. While I definitely see some benefit for many divers in getting some practice in between, I also have found that divers that take the two together end up with what I consider to be much better overall OW certification process. Think of the "advanced" in the name of the course not to mean 'advanced diver' but instead 'advanced certification course' which is much more what is intended to be. Of course practicing is the ideal, but the AOW class can give you some good things to practice.

 

[scubadada]

I would not recommend the PADI equipment course. During my PADI training I found that their materials on equipment were not very good, and in some cases I disagreed with the information. You're way better off just checking out the equipment forums here on SB, getting the Vance Harlow book on regulators, and having a look atwhat tech divers are using for gear. Generally speaking they're way ahead of the standard rec crowd with regards to equipment, because tech diving is much more equipment dependent and the gear is more specialized.

Few statements people make are absolute. I had a fantastic equipment specialty course taught by a very talented individual. The knowledge I obtained has saved or improved my dives, my family's dives, and the dives of many individuals I have encountered along the way. I would not sell this specialty short but would seek out a highly motivated and skilled instructor.

Good diving, Craig

 

[ScubaDocER]

This will raise a HUGE debate, as has happened frequently. This is one of the most divisive questions on Scuba Board.

Many will agree with me that the big problem is the "A" part of AOW. People get the sense that someone taking the class should be an advanced diver. The intent of most agencies, though, is more of an OWII class. In it you get experience doing different kinds of dives. You learn more skills and have more time with the instructor. Those who follow this line of thinking (including myself) don't feel you should need many dives at all. I myself was dissatisfied with my level of training after OW and took AOW without a single intervening dive. In retrospect, it was a good decision. I got 5 dives with professional guidance and benefited greatly. When I got my subsequent experience, I was practicing good technique.

Others argue that you benefit from the experience of doing a lot of dives on your own and will learn more from the AOW when you eventually take it.

I feel that experience is beneficial when it is good experience. If in your experience you are practicing and reinforcing poor technique, than that practice may do more harm than good. In almost all sports, I recommend competent instruction before bad habits develop.

John,

I don't think that it has to initiate a huge debate (although that seems to be the nature of things here on SB most times). I agree most passionately about your last paragraph. More diving that reinforces bad habits is a waste of time for all involved. I was told that after my initial cave certification. Just dive more was what I was told. I felt that something was missing and sought additional traning elsewhere and felt much better. I learned specifically what I should work on and felt more focused on subsequent dives. If the Instructor is going to sign a student off, then they should guide the student in what they should work on specifically to make them better divers on future dives. Give them specific skills to accomplish. Buoyancy skills. OOA skills. Awareness skills. They should tell the students more than just "dive more". Perhaps that will make the additional dives more productive.

Personally I think that an AOW diver should look like an Advanced diver after they have been certified. Otherwise, what's the point? That's the focus I have when I am doing my AOW course. We work heavily on buoyancy control (on each dive),air planning and gas management. I also like Search and Recovery, Night diving, and U/W navigation. While I can appreciate that some may see AOW as OWII, I think that the bar should be raised a bit. The AOW cert will only carry as much weight and importance as the Instructor who is conducting the class. If it is conducted as an OWII class then that is what will be produced. If it is conducted as if the AOW diver should look like an advanced diver, then that is what will be produced. I have had the benefit of diving with my students after they complete their OW cert with me. We focus on buoyancy issues and I offer them the opportuinty to "prep" for the AOW course. They can also just dive and work on issues they feel are important without having to focus on another cert. If divers had the option of diving with some guidance and leadership after their OW cert then I think they will be better prepared to successfully complete a true AOW course. Just my 2 cents.

 

[iztok]

In the new PADI log book it is set so AOW immediately follows the OW. You actually need to skip several pages forward to be able to log plain dives.

As for me, I had a blast. Did a #6 dive yesterday followed by #7 that was a AOW Night dive witn an instructor. #6 was good I thought. Night dive was bit disorienting and sure was a training lesson. Had different instructor as well but 1:2 ration was great for night dive.

Today I had the opportunity to dive with a couple of more experienced divers. First dive was with a buddy whose original buddy had to bail due to equalization issue and we did a good dive. He somewhat shadowed me. I felt secure and relaxed. #8 behind me.

Then I had an opportunity to dive with a tech diver. He had patience to dive with me, followed me and I felt very secure as well. We even deployed the safety sausage and did safety stop using it. Briefly I've lost him in fairly limited visibility and marked the time, did a quick search and when returning to the last point we had contact I was swimming/searching and opening my safety sausage getting ready for safe ascent when I reach the point (sunken boat). I've spotted him. So we continued the exploration dive. Dive #9.

One thing about quarry dive is that it is fairly save and we kept above 40ft.

Interesting thing is that when I finished my OW last week I had 22 lbs. Last night I lost a weight pocket (had 3 lbs in it) and was able to continue to dive ok. So today I only went down with 18lbs (I dive 7mm suit, 5mm booties and hood and 2mm gloves) and did a little hard time at first but managed to submerge and descent.

When I was doing OW my instructor insisted of having a weight belt so my weights were distributed in BC (trim + pockets) and weight belt. Today I ditched the weight belt and put all the weights in my BC (6lbs trip + 12lbs in pockets) and I felt much more stable and dives took less effort and I managed to stay more horizontal.

Next steps for me?

I might do a dive or two Sunday but I don't want to upset my wife too much

Thursday I will do a night dive or two. On 14th I have AOW class review and on 15th EANx class. Looking forward to all of the above.

Thanks for all the advice and opinions (Will continue to update as I go.)

 

[k ellis]

Take your wife to Epcot center in Florida. They will let you dive in the tank with all the neat sea life and get back stage views of the place for 150 dollars and she can watch you through the aquarium windows. Some say its too pricey but the memories are priceless!

 

[katdiver]

Hi iztok! Sounds like you're having a blast! Enjoy your dives, learning can be fun!

 

[Peter Guy]

Someone wrote

Stay away from choices like Boat diving.

To which I must respond, "Stay away from choices where the Instructor doesn't add value" to the dive. It isn't that the "Boat Diving Specialty" (or AOW dive) can't be valuable, but that, unfortunately, too often there is no value added.

IF you have never been on a boat (or not done much small boating) and plan to do some resort boat dives, then even without much instructor added value, the Boat Dive information may be well worth the effort. OTOH, even for an "old salt" if the Instructor decides to add value, ANY "specialty" (including boat diving) can be well worth it.

Here is an example of how a "Boat Dive" in AOW could be well worth it:

a. Instructor goes over the standard information (pointy end, blunt end, right and left side, how to operate a marine head, etc.). Not a whole lot of value added.

b. Instructor goes over various methods for entering the water (and if possible, actually does a CW demo of some of them) -- back roll, giant stride, in-water donnng -- and when and why you'd do one method over the other! Perhaps some value added to the written materials.

c. Instructor goes over various methods for getting back on the boat including a discussion (with pictures?) of various types of ladders and their pros/cons -- not to mention that on some boats the preferred method is crawling onto the swim step which may have its own issues in surge (says he who just spent three days doing that). Again, perhaps some value added to the written materials.

d. Instructor goes over various dive planning strategies for boat diving -- all available air, halves, thirds, minimum air reserve -- and why the strategies are appropriate, or not, depending on the type of dive being contemplated. Definitely value added to the written materials.

And so forth.

As with all the "specialties" the question is, how much value added is the instructor going to provide and what is YOUR skill set at the beginning? IF you already know everything the class/dive is going to teach you, then, in my opinion, you are wasting your time and money doing it IN A CLASS SITUATION!

 

[boulderjohn]

Someone wrote To which I must respond, "Stay away from choices where the Instructor doesn't add value" to the dive. It isn't that the "Boat Diving Specialty" (or AOW dive) can't be valuable, but that, unfortunately, too often there is no value added.

IF you have never been on a boat (or not done much small boating) and plan to do some resort boat dives, then even without much instructor added value, the Boat Dive information may be well worth the effort. OTOH, even for an "old salt" if the Instructor decides to add value, ANY "specialty" (including boat diving) can be well worth it.

Here is an example of how a "Boat Dive" in AOW could be well worth it:

a. Instructor goes over the standard information (pointy end, blunt end, right and left side, how to operate a marine head, etc.). Not a whole lot of value added.

b. Instructor goes over various methods for entering the water (and if possible, actually does a CW demo of some of them) -- back roll, giant stride, in-water donnng -- and when and why you'd do one method over the other! Perhaps some value added to the written materials.

c. Instructor goes over various methods for getting back on the boat including a discussion (with pictures?) of various types of ladders and their pros/cons -- not to mention that on some boats the preferred method is crawling onto the swim step which may have its own issues in surge (says he who just spent three days doing that). Again, perhaps some value added to the written materials.

d. Instructor goes over various dive planning strategies for boat diving -- all available air, halves, thirds, minimum air reserve -- and why the strategies are appropriate, or not, depending on the type of dive being contemplated. Definitely value added to the written materials.

And so forth.

As with all the "specialties" the question is, how much value added is the instructor going to provide and what is YOUR skill set at the beginning? IF you already know everything the class/dive is going to teach you, then, in my opinion, you are wasting your time and money doing it IN A CLASS SITUATION!

Since I was that someone...

I cover b, c, and most of d in the OW class.

In the CW portions of the class, we talk about (and somewhat simulate using steps) a typical ladder entry, we do a small boat ladder entry using a ladder on the side of the pool, and we do an inflatable (Panga) entry on the side of the pool. We do back rolls, giant strides, and in-water donning. I go over dive planning in general, not necessarily off of the boat.

We even do one of the suit ups and buddy checks on a bench with the BCD and tank behind them and the rest of the gear stowed under the bench, just as it is done on most larger dive boats.

 

[Peter Guy]

John, I know that most of what I listed is "covered" in an OW class -- just as being "neutral" is covered. I'm merely suggesting that the instructor may add "value" to the written materials of the AOW by going into more depth on these (and other) items. Although the student may have heard all this before, I wonder how much has been learned?

 

[TSandM]

I think there are several points that have come up in this thread:

1. Training is great, if it's good training, but it's very important to get in non-training dives as well. Someone who has 25 dives but has done them all in various classes is probably not as strong a diver as someone who has taken fewer classes but done a dozen independent dives, solving the problems that those dives inevitably present.

2. Training varies in quality. The AOW class I took was designed to follow immediately on the heels of OW, and the dives were simple, and very little value was added to them. A good friend teaches an AOW class that would challenge me TODAY, and it is NOT designed to be done immediately after OW at all.

But I would like to add a personal opinion. I think one of the big, hidden dangers in doing AOW as designed, immediately after OW, is that pernicious "deep" dive. Last year, we had a diver here die on the first dive after his AOW class, because he went deep and ran out of gas. Given the complete lack of gas management teaching in most OW/AOW combinations, the high gas consumption of the typical new diver, and the small tanks such divers are usually renting, I think signing someone off on a "deep" dive is a recipe for problems. Yes, divers are not required to respect the 60 foot limit on their original certification (and I suspect few do), but signing off on a deep dive is more likely to make people feel okay about going down there, I think, when they are really very poorly prepared to do so.