complacent divers

[MechDiver]

usil once bubbled...

Organisations like PADI have brought the diving world to alot of people, but what kind of people have they brought to the diving world?? Shouldn't it be there primary concern to train well educated divers, not see how much cash they can bring in!
PADI
Put Another Diver In

What is their incentive to create a "well educated diver"? What they are doing works for them. They make money, they get more students, etc.

The market creates the demand. If the public would say, no way PADI, junk course, won't do it, then they would have to change or lose profit share. And, the "joe diver" who dives Cancum twice a year really doesn't care as long as he/she doesn't die.

MD

 

[usil]

Its hard for the publis to say"no way PADI, junk corse" when the only thing that most people hear about is padi. I

I have had people come to me and say " I want my PADI "
WHAT?? you want what??

I am not saying that it is PADIs fault, they ARE just responding to a market. The problem is the market!! People don't want to put in the effort to become DIVERS. The industry just reinforces that. One we have them, we don't develope better divers we just bleed them dry!!


Tell me if I am way off, but if you get into something you strive to be the best at it you can.

 

[Dr. Jay]

usil once bubbled...
Organisations like PADI have brought the diving world to alot of people, but what kind of people have they brought to the diving world?? Shouldn't it be there primary concern to train well educated divers, not see how much cash they can bring in!
PADI
Put Another Diver In

Does not compute :huh:

If PADI was certifying so many "dangerous divers", then why haven't they been sued and gone out of business? I got certified in a weekend. We absolutely had to demonstrate all of the skills proficiently. However, I had the books 2-3 weeks prior and I went over them time and again. My instructor answered all of my questions that I couldn't answer by reading the book. It's your responsibility to make sure you get what you paid for out of the class. If your instructor is not doing their job, it's your safety. Do something about it. A lot of your learning comes through experience. During one of my Finance classes, we had a AmEx rep come in and say that around 4 years of college was the same as 1 year in the real world. Moral: a lot of what you learn is through experience.

I think this one has been debated just as much as the DIR deal.

 

[Irishdiver]

usil once bubbled...
Why is it that the vast majority of divers out there have become very complacent in there diving practices?

Hey Usil, seems to me you're confusing complacent dive practises with poor or inadequate training.

I did a CMAS dive course that took me two months of theory and pool, about six hours a week. Only then did I get into the open water. Seven years later and I'm now leading diver with rescue, cox'n, O2 admin, nitrox certified, etc, but every time I get into the water I'm more aware than ever of the limitations of my knowledge.

Diving on the Barrier Reef and the Red Sea I've encountered divers who announced to the crew that they were experienced divers. When asked how many dives they had done, they said it was four, or eight, or maybe 10. With the growth in recreational holidays and sports we're in too much of a rush to put people through the courses and get them into the water. They think diving is easy, something you can rack up in a couple of weekends, but nobody seems to be teaching them that there's no substitute for experience (I'm beginning to sound like my granny!).

On the other hand, IMHO, complacent dive practises are caused by over familiarity. You know the kind of thing...the buddy check that you only half pay attention to. Last year I entered the water as leader of a group of three only to discover that one of my buddies' direct feeds had not been connected to his BC. He was a diver with 20 years of experience. None of us - and that includes other divers from the club who watched us kitting up - spotted it before we were in the drink. We were on a chartered dive boat, conditions weren't great, we were rushed into the water as the boat couldn't hold station, etc, etc.

It was a mistake caused by complacency. I don't plan to do it again. As I said, every time I get into the water I'm more aware than ever of the limitations of my knowledge.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I have talked to many instructors about this. Most don't think they are doing a bad job. They teach the way they were tought and how they were tought to teach. However when they see how it could be done sometimes the lights really come on. I think the instructors are every bit a product of the industry as their students are. You can't teach something if you don't know it.

Pick ten instructors and ask them to explain how to get your trim under control and see how many real answers you get.

Also the fact is that the average student is able to occomplish their main goal which is to go sight seeing on the reef. They don't feel cheated until they see what diving can look like or experience how much easier and more enjoyable it can be.

Dr. Jay,

You say you demonstrated proficiencey. that's just it What is proficient. I see lots of divers but not much proficiencey. I see many OW classes and NO proficiencey in the bunch often not even the instructor. I spend lots of time remediating with a diver who wants to take an advanced class because they are not proficient at the basics. The current definition of proficient seems to be getting through a skill once without drowning.

Is it dangerous? Usually nobody dies. Divers beinf led around by a DM in warm clear water usually survive. It isn't until they come to Gilboa and try a 100 ft dive (like they did in the Caribbean many times) that they get hurt.

What we are talking about is underwater tourism. They can suck on a reg and look at the fish but they cannot dive. see my earlier post about the two that just told me about their trips. they simply survive under water while seeing the sights and following the DM all the while they are completely dependant on the DM.

Another problem here is that even the consumer doesn't like to hear that the new card they have and are so proud of doesn mean they know anything about diving. They don't want to hear their instructor let them through with lousy skills.

 

[O-ring]

What we are talking about is underwater tourism. They can suck on a reg and look at the fish but they cannot dive.

 

[MechDiver]

usil once bubbled...

you strive to be the best at it you can.

In all honesty, no I don't. If I did, I would dive 8 or 10 hours a day, be in classes constantly, and do it for a living.

I strive to be a better diver today than I was yesterday, and less than I will be tomorrow.

MD

 

[usil]

irish diver
I think the poor trainning that alot of people experience promotes the complacency in the end diver.

Mech diver
you don't have to live like a fish in order to become proficient at diving. Just every time you get in the water you can work on something. This applies to technical divers and recreational diver alike. Watch my bouyancy, watch my buddy more closley, refine my gas consumption calcs. It just takes some fore thopught

It seem that when a diver gets his c-card he thinks hes a skilled diver, NO NO NO, the c-card is just a license to learn!!

 

[MechDiver]

usil once bubbled...

Mech diver
you don't have to live like a fish in order to become proficient at diving. Just every time you get in the water you can work on something. This applies to technical divers and recreational diver alike. Watch my bouyancy, watch my buddy more closley, refine my gas consumption calcs. It just takes some fore thopught

It seem that when a diver gets his c-card he thinks hes a skilled diver, NO NO NO, the c-card is just a license to learn!!

 

[Dr. Jay]

Mike,
As to what skills I had to demonstrate proficiently, click here.
My instructor has been teaching for 15+ years. Hopefully this won't turn into a credentials debate.

Hmmmm.....proficiency. I guess I can do the skill (i.e. - mask removing, buddy breathing, fin-pivot/hover). It may not be perfect but then again, I'm sure no one can do it perfectly. It gives me something to build on.

I digress back to what I previously posted. Practice helps! I work on buoyancy skills every time I hit the water. I don't see how you can't (wait a minute, I take that back ). I don't get to dive as much as I'd like to, but as usil said, I'm always learning.

MechDiver once bubbled...
I strive to be a better diver today than I was yesterday, and less than I will be tomorrow.

I agree with MechDiver, as usual