Comfybite and DIR?

[aquaoren]

[OFFTOPIC]

Hey...I've even been accused of trolling LOL

[/OFFTOPIC]

No, really? :11:

 

[JeffG]

No, really? :11:

Innocent until proven guilty

 

[Lane Zimmer]

Note to the Moderators; I firmly believe that anyone should be able to post questions in this forum, but just anybody shouldn’t be able to answer. If you aren’t DIR, aren’t interested in becoming DIR or aren’t going to take a class, then move on to another forum. The TOS is clear about posting here, and Albion has clealy violated it at least once in this thread, most likely more …

Mark

There is no use in calling the TOS police. Once one troll is gone, two will fill in the void. I do find it quite amusing as to where some of these guys come up with this stuff, though. But, that's what you get from an informal, ambiguous diving forum... You don't know who's who until you've actually gone diving with them.

 

[Albion]

This is exactly the same as reading it, but you have to work harder to get the information. It isn't YOUR actual practical experience that you are drawing on, but that was your implication.

In the case of toxing no, it wasn’t my actual experience, but it came from the mouth of someone I could see to be experienced and factual, and it wasn’t harder to get the information. But for other issues yes it was my personal experience. Bob cited Toxing as a something he had learnt more about through reading and I gave an example of how experience could be equal to this, is this trolling or a reasoned response?

Now, you make an outlandish statement (admittedly so), someone called you on it, and you trashed them in public, nice

Actually no one "called me" on what I had written, Johnnythan just took the pi55 and I struck back back, is this trolling? or defending my position? And Outlandish!!!!! I think saying “you need to get out and read more” is equally outlandish.

Though he may not have a zillion dives, I’ve found every single one of his posts to be accurate from what I can tell (I don’t have much diving experience either, quick, look at my profile and decide whether you can continue to read this)

Well unfortunately they aren’t always correct and this is exactly the kind of thing that scares the hell out of me. Not long ago there was a post concerning a DIR (not yet trained) diver who had read that it is normal (DIR) practice to leave second stages hand tight, and had gone on a single tank dive and one of the second stages fell off (I’m not 100% on the exact details now so don’t pick this apart). Well surprise surprise this is not what should be done with a single tank and could have got someone killed. But the guy read it and thought it came from a reputable source, Rule 1 check your sources!!!!

I believe that the general thought process here is that if someone is toxing or unconscious their reg is out of their mouth. Isn’t that why they die?

Remember, another reason for switching to your primary reg is in case they have a nasty in their tank, like from an internal tank fire that was undetected during the fill. With that said, I’m pretty confident that you couldn’t get a reg out of a toxing divers mouth during the tox if they didn’t spit it out, but you would want to get them on your gas as soon as you could, in the safest manner you can. Common sense would always dictate what you would do, but these types of conversations, along with training scenarios, are what allow you to be as ready as you can for such situations.

Para 1 They could be toxing with the reg still clenched between their jaws (weren’t you taught that?)
Para 2 If they spit the reg out then yes, but DD implied that it was a good idea to get them on your gas whatever the situation and that I believe it was a dangerous statement that could be taken out of context.

Exactly. If they're toxing, you want to get a different gas into their system. Allowing them to breathe their own gas will only result in more toxing.

And I believe that Bob subsequently posted something to support what I said. More toxing wont kill them at this point.

Note to the Moderators; I firmly believe that anyone should be able to post questions in this forum, but just anybody shouldn’t be able to answer. If you aren’t DIR, aren’t interested in becoming DIR or aren’t going to take a class, then move on to another forum. The TOS is clear about posting here, and Albion has clearly violated it at least once in this thread, most likely more …

I believe my original post was in support of DIR protocol, where I explained why moulded mouthpieces are not a good idea, aside from the tox issue debate the other posts have been defending myself, and if that is trolling then I’m going back under the bridge.

If you believe my statements are incorrect then I will welcome the opportunity to be corrected.

 

[detroit diver]

............

So you would take a working Reg out of a toxing divers mouth!!!!!!!!, Not knowing if you could get another one back in before they choke down a mouthful cmon. Toxing will not kill you, but drowning will! :11: (see your second post which contradicts the first?)

..............

Yes, and I'll stand by that statement. Their reg is NOT WORKING-IT'S TOXING THEM!!!!!! You don't take out their reg until yours is in place and flowing. They're toxing for a reason, and that's because they've got bad(wrong) gas at the wrong depth. You need to give them YOUR gas because you know it's operable at that depth. If you don't they will continue to tox and you will not be able to ascend with them without causing serious injury or death.

This skill is something that needs to be taught in a class and practiced over and over again. It is VERY difficult to master. Never the less, it is quite important to learn. I highly doubt that it is taught in any non-GUE class, at least in the recreational levels.

 

[mweitz]

Albion, Carbon Monoxide WILL kill you. Can you prove they are actually O2 toxing? Do you know they don't have CO2 in their tank? You don't know what the heck is going on, but you KNOW THAT YOUR GAS IS GOOD and THEIR GAS IS BAD.

In any case, the DIR answer is to get them on your back gas. Since you aren't DIR, you wouldn't know it, thus you shouldn't be here discussing your opinions. That is what isn't allowed here. From a personal standpoint, I think you have a lot to teach, but you come in here with a chip on your shoulder and start swinging. Since you seem to like this forum so much, why not take the class?

Please reread your FIRST post to this thread, if you want to post like that, then yes, go back under your bridge. Running out of air due to bad gas planning isn't DIR either, though I'm not going to say it doesn't happen. Your attitude in that post sets the tone for the rest of the thread. It is clearly all about you and your convenience ... if you were joking, I didn't get it

EDIT: I missed the second stage thing. Yes, the book does say to do that, as does the DVD as I recall. True, that is for a specific application, and should really be removed from the book IMO. I had mine like that for my first class. When I popped one of my first stages off Joe's eyes bugged out. We tightened em up. In my second class another student had one of his fall off while messing around with the bolt snaps. Same deal ... tool sets were quickly dispatched.


Peace,

Mark

 

[Charlie99]

Their reg is NOT WORKING-IT'S TOXING THEM!!!!!! You don't take out their reg until yours is in place and flowing. They're toxing for a reason, and that's because they've got bad(wrong) gas at the wrong depth. You need to give them YOUR gas because you know it's operable at that depth. If you don't they will continue to tox and you will not be able to ascend with them without causing serious injury or death.

Is the removal of a reg still in a toxing divers mouth, and replacement with known gas a standard DIR procedure, or is this just your personal preference?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Yes, and I'll stand by that statement. Their reg is NOT WORKING-IT'S TOXING THEM!!!!!! You don't take out their reg until yours is in place and flowing. They're toxing for a reason, and that's because they've got bad(wrong) gas at the wrong depth. You need to give them YOUR gas because you know it's operable at that depth. If you don't they will continue to tox and you will not be able to ascend with them without causing serious injury or death.

This skill is something that needs to be taught in a class and practiced over and over again. It is VERY difficult to master. Never the less, it is quite important to learn. I highly doubt that it is taught in any non-GUE class, at least in the recreational levels.

Just curious ... what class did you learn this procedure in? It's not part of DIR-F.

The reason it's not typically taught at recreational levels is because until recently, ox tox wasn't something a recreational diver would typically be exposed to. Now, with the (recent) common usage of nitrox as a recreational breathing gas, it's becoming something that recreational divers should be trained in. That said, this procedure still has some inherent risks ... and in the USA at least, teaching this procedure at the recreational level assumes some liability on the part of both agency and instructor.

Hopefully this will change in the near future.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[mweitz]

I believe that it is officially in the Tech 1 curriculum. I think they are starting to touch on it in the Fundies class now. The fundies class is constantly evolving from what I can tell. My class was a lot different than some friends class last year. It was touched on in both of my Fundies classes.

It isn't just Ox Tox that you are worried about though ... Carbon Dioxide and Carbon Monoxide are other concerns. The way it was taught to me was if you are under water and the other diver is having tox like symptoms, you get them on your back gas since you don't know what the problem is with their gas.

Mark

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I believe that it is officially in the Tech 1 curriculum. I think they are starting to touch on it in the Fundies class now. The fundies class is constantly evolving from what I can tell. My class was a lot different than some friends class last year. It was touched on in both of my Fundies classes.

It isn't just Ox Tox that you are worried about though ... Carbon Dioxide and Carbon Monoxide are other concerns. The way it was taught to me was if you are under water and the other diver is having tox like symptoms, you get them on your back gas since you don't know what the problem is with their gas.

Mark

Fair enough ... FWIW, I teach that much in my NAUI Rescue class ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)