Claims made about ascending vertical vs horizontal

[boulderjohn]

I always wonder if the very low intensity kicking motion might actually be beneficial with respect to circulation and consequently, offgassing as well?

Dr. Richard Pyle's team does light exercise during decompression in order to increase perfusion and facilitate off-gassing. When we are doing our last decompression stops in New Mexico, we swim gently around the lake for the same reason.

This contrasts greatly with the supposed ideal of staying motionless for all that time.

 

[johndiver999]

When I do stops of more than a few minutes, I try to completely relax and slow respiration and not move.

After 2-3 minutes, I am pretty much recovered and rested, and then I also engage in deliberate, gentle movements of hips, knees, shoulders, elbows etc. and my heart rate and breathing will be slightly elevated. And then I rest again for a minute or two.

I wish I could say this has always worked to avoid deco sickness, but I like to think it helps.

 

[Wibble]

Horizontal and stable vs. vertical and unstable…

If you’re vertical and not in neutral buoyancy you’ll be finning to keep at a specific depth. This requires constant monitoring with subtle changes, i.e. concentration. Fine for a couple or three minutes on a “safety stop” if that’s what you want to do.

If you’re facing an hour or two on decompression stops you will be using good buoyancy skills to be neutrally buoyant as you cannot be actively adjusting your depth all the time; neutral is relaxing as is decompression. As has been mentioned several times in this thread, horizontal trim is easier to maintain and is more natural.

Maybe buoyancy all comes down to Conscious Competence vs. Unconscious Competence, the former is tiring and to some extent stressful. The latter relaxing and calming, many people doze off whilst decompressing.

 

[Thunder Struck]

As you’re in the US, can’t you/someone on your boat just shoot at them? Obviously there is the concern over fire being returned, but surely if you’re accurate enough/have a big enough gun, the problem goes away?

I've been meaning to test a Trijicon RMR HD optic for claimed water resistance. Plan was to take it to 40-50 ft on the slide it is mounted and zeroed on. Then take it to the range, affix it to the frame and see if it held zero. Buuuuutttt, given that ammo is fairly water proof (I've had a number of rounds in my range pants over the years go through the washing machine and all subsequently fired just fine) this could make for an ideal non-scripted real world test.

I'm actually rather curious about how much depth a cartridge can handle. Originally I was thinking I could hand load some rounds with a primer and bullet, and instead of powder put a color changing water detection label like Motorola used to put in cell phones to detect if water got into the casing. (For those not in the know, with the exception of 22 rimfire ammo, primers and bullets are basically pressed/swaged into the case creating a water tight seal even before additional sealant may be applied). After a dive pull the cartridge apart and see if there was any moisture intrusion. But now, why not just throw a powder charge in there and see if they fire normally in a YOLO fashion. Maybe even run the rounds over the chorono.

 

[GF99/99]

I ve been living in the caribeean for 3 years dove mainly in mexico east coast, belize and honduras. I dont recall to have seen people doing safety stop horizontaly. dont ask me why i do recall that when i was diving the blue hole (and did it like 4-5 time) people where doing safety stop vertically.

it doesn't really matter honestly as long as you do it in a safe manner. I ve veen doing it for more than 200 dives in all positions (lol) still alive.

cheers

I think this was more referring to decompression stops. There is a big difference between a quick 3-5min "safety stop" (not even required) and mandatory decompression stops. Also @Wibble was discussing from a CCR point of view as well.
Yeah im sure if you flapping around with a BCD and single reactional tank in Mexico, Caribbean, Belize etc. with a boat full of OW students with 100-200 dives under there belt you will see everyone fin sculling away on there "safety stop".

People are not horizontal because it looks cool. It is more out of practicality and comfort. Try going vertical on a rebreather and having hamster cheeks for hours on end during your deco stops. You will learn real quick it is soooooo much more comfortable to be horizontal. Also don't forget alot of us are diving dry. And if your like me your in warm tropical water so you only have very thin base layers. Going vertical in a dry suit and having major foot and leg squeeze and Michelin man syndrome up top is super uncomfortable. Once again being horizontal is super comfy and very relaxed feeling. It is also so much more stable and controllable.

Also I think the "looks cool" thing comes from tech diving and GUE but once again tech diving was always done in CCR, sidemount, or twinset config and alot of times in a dry suit so the equipment kind of forces you to be in trim and dive horizontal. This is why people are horizontal. As mentioned above go vertical on a rebreather or sidemount and you will see if very uncomfortable, yeah yeah in twinset you can go vertical but even this it is really not very comfy, or stable.

But I do agree if your in a BCD with a single tank and you just have a 3-5min "safety stop" then sure do what you want as along as your having fun. But the reality is and as you get more experience you will find that being horizontal because it is more practical, comfy and efficient way to dive then being vertical on stops regardless of you equipment config.

I'd rather be slightly negatively buoyant on ascent, and use my legs to propel myself upward. That's pretty difficult to do if I'm horizontal.

Relying on my legs to go up vs. keeping my BCD perfectly trimmed means that I can breath freely and completely without pooching my buoyancy. I don't mind kicking gently on a safety stop nearly so much as I mind an uncontrolled ascent.

Try having 6hr of mandatory decompression stops. No way your going to be slightly negative and kicking upwards for 6hr. Horizontal and perfectly natural is a much more practical way and ALOT less effort. I am not saying it can't be done but me personally I don't want to be treading water for 6hr.

Horizontal and stable vs. vertical and unstable…

If you’re vertical and not in neutral buoyancy you’ll be finning to keep at a specific depth. This requires constant monitoring with subtle changes, i.e. concentration. Fine for a couple or three minutes on a “safety stop” if that’s what you want to do.

If you’re facing an hour or two on decompression stops you will be using good buoyancy skills to be neutrally buoyant as you cannot be actively adjusting your depth all the time; neutral is relaxing as is decompression. As has been mentioned several times in this thread, horizontal trim is easier to maintain and is more natural.

Maybe buoyancy all comes down to Conscious Competence vs. Unconscious Competence, the former is tiring and to some extent stressful. The latter relaxing and calming, many people doze off whilst decompressing.

Spot on!

 

[The Chairman]

I'd rather be slightly negatively buoyant on ascent, and use my legs to propel myself upward. That's pretty difficult to do if I'm horizontal.

Then there are divers like me who simply breathe themselves to the surface.

 

[Still Kicking]

Edit: One dive not far from where I live I was straight up and down ascending watching the whaler shark doing a large circle around me to the safety stop, no way was I about to look like I am still in bed half asleep.

I met a DM at Dos Ojos who said he was runnimg bull shark dives off Playa del Carmen in the winter. I asked if the sharks ever got aggressive. He said not if you stay vertical -- anything horizontal looks like potential prey.

 

[Blackcrusader]

I met a DM at Dos Ojos who said he was runnimg bull shark dives off Playa del Carmen in the winter. I asked if the sharks ever got aggressive. He said not if you stay vertical -- anything horizontal looks like potential prey.

I'm going Tiger Shark diving in Maldives at Fuvahmulah with a good dive buddy friend that has dived there before.
I am wondering what marinade I can soak his wetsuit in as I will be in shorts and T shirt mostly.

Night dives with Tiger Sharks sounds like a lot of fun lol

 

[Wibble]

I'm going Tiger Shark diving in Maldives at Fuvahmulah with a good dive buddy friend that has dived there before.
I am wondering what marinade I can soak his wetsuit in as I will be in shorts and T shirt mostly.

Night dives with Tiger Sharks sounds like a lot of fun lol

Am off cave diving next week. The thought of your shark diving scares the bejesus out of me!

Each to our own! Have fun

 

[Nemrod]

During deco I think more important that your lungs are at the depth. Being in trim helps me to hold effortlessly my stop. Whenever I see divers vertical in the water they are almost always bicycle kicking and arm flapping. Not always, but 90% of the time. The two just seem to go together. Sometimes I just have to close my eyes and take myself to another world with the mayhem about me, it is infectious and soon I am bouncing up and down like a yoyo and wanting to flap my hands as to emulate a bird.

Forget the left side of this diagram as it pertains to twin hose regulators but the right side, notice that when vertical in the water, where your lungs are in relation to the demand diaphragm of your second stage. Why make yourself work if you can get trim and horizontal and have better performance from your regulator and maybe not kick and flap as much, maybe. When near horizontal, neck rotated naturally up a few degrees your regulator demand diaphragm and exhaust are going to be on the line through the center of your lungs providing nearly neutral inhalation and exhaust efforts. YRMV admittedly.