Christi with Blue XTSEA Takes a TypeII DCS Hit (+)

[Karibelle]

Kevin, take a few minutes and google "hydrating with coffee" or something similar. You will be surprised by what you find.

kari

 

[staffybull]

I see where you are comming from Kevin but the fact is coffee is about the same diuretic as water

Also everyone has about the same size bladder. When we feel the urge to go is a psychological respose more thsn a physical.

Grumpoldman, lol. Im the opposite. Water makes me run like a faucet

 

[firstdive2005]

Kevin, take a few minutes and google "hydrating with coffee" or something similar. You will be surprised by what you find.

kari

Kari your beautiful. I dont totally feel like an idiot with my previous answer but I could pull in some horns. lol. I suppose i was going on memory and for sure that's getting soggy. haha.
As I do a recall from efficacy every time I stop drinking coffee and then start up a few days or maybe a couple weeks at most I have to pee really bad very soon after the first cup. That sense goes away as I start drinking regularly. From what I read there is a tolerance built up with regular users. I qualify.
As we all know the build up of nitrogen helps promote voiding so it's volume of fluid prior to diving in the body as vs drinking the coffee that causes the void effect.
I did find arguments by dive doctors to not use coffee as a hydration drink prior to diving.

 

[Craig66]

Coffee is not a diuretic and does not dehydrate. Caffeine is a mild diuretic yes. The only way it will dehydrate you is by taking caffeine in excess by it self, IE: pills. The majority of people take Caffeine via soft drinks, coffee, and tea. The same fluid is retained whether you drink the same amount of water or caffeine drinks. There have been lots of studies done on this. This means there is no fluid-electrolyte imbalance. The amount of fluid you would have to drink in order to get enough caffeine in your system to dehydrate you, would still be greater than any fluid loss you would have from so called caffeine dehydradtion so its a transient result.
A person would have to really over do it with caffeine to result in dehydration. It would take several thousand mg's in a short amount of time. Eating 200mg caffeine pills like skittles and washing it down with a six pack of redbulls in 10 minutes may get you started but the real worry would be you would have cardiac arrest before dehydration would get you.

Agreed 100%. As someone that just cannot handle the (lack of)taste of water I would have died of dehydration decades ago had it not been for Coffee and Diet Coke. There is no doubt that the fluids that accompany the caffeine in coffee and diet coke more than overcompensate for the very small diuretic effect of the caffeine. Alcohol and alcohol shots specifically are a little different as the diuretic component of alcohol is a lot stronger and it is also not usually taken with a lot of other fluids and hence the hangover (cerebral dehydration) and hence the prevention for a hangover is to take lots of fluids (even if it be diet coke )

The first place I hit when I get to Coz is the MEGA so that I can stock up on my Coke Lite - Dont want to get dehydrated

Craig

 

[Craig66]

Coffee and diet coke are such a mild diuretic, how come I have to pee every time I drink the stuff, but not after I drink the same amount of water?

That is more likely related to the effects that caffeine has on the autonomic system. Bladder is controlled by the autonomic system - hence the need to pee when getting the fright of your life

Craig

 

[Rick Murchison]

Prayer lamp lit bright & steady for a rapid and complete recovery, Christi.
The Lovely Young Kat & I intend to dive with you the next time we're in CZM.
Rick

 

[DandyDon]

You know there are analogies that work well and then there is this. When you have to explain mules are important, you know you have gone down a strange road..... :rofl4::rofl2:

Just in from a day of touring Anasazi ruins around Flagstaff with the kids. I was think how archaic that breaking sod and farming was for my granddad compared to our huge, computerized machines today - but we were looking at fields and homes used by stone age Amerindians of the 1100s. They would have loved our mules!

good of christie to share her experience so that we can learn form it. not to highjack the thread from concern for her but it did raise some questions for me.
i have heard 2 sides to discussions about whether nitrox would have helped avoid a hit in a situation like hers. i believe it would have helped her and i always use it myself, but i am wondering what the latest science is on this one.
the other question i have is about coffee. i had believed, as christie does, that it can dehyrate but an article in scuba mag said the opposite. according to that article it is beneficial in avoiding dehydration. i hope christie is wrong on this one because i love a couple cups while sitting on the deck of casa mx watching the port wake up.

You're kidding? Caffeinated drinks like coffee, tea, colas, etc are mildly diuretic but how important that is depends on whom you ask, and when. Even Dr Deco has discounted their risks, but no one would suggest that they are better than water. Nitrox lowers N2 loading so it could have helped indirectly I'm sure, altho bubbling is more complicated than that.

Coffee is a diuretic. It will dehydrate. As Christie posted earlier the proper way to hydrate is to begin the night before diving with several glasses just before diving. Remember eating fruit before is a good way to hydrate also.
The guess to whether a tank of nitrox would have stopped the hit can not be answered. However most would say that one of the major factors to promoting a hit would be not drinking enough water. There are too many variables to this scenario to say what would have worked to stop the hit. She was simply over tired, had worked out a lot during the week, was on her third dive, (within limits), had not hydrated, frustrated with some outside issues, it was simply a dive that had all the right components to a hit. BUT I HAVE DONE this same profile several times and I have not been hit. I am sure a gazillion people have also. Truly I dont dive anymore without drinking lots of water before, I try to make sure just prior to dropping my mind/physical sense is clear.
Her testimony is the result of the perfect storm in a dive profile for a hit. One or all of the ingredients could have caused it.
As for whether Nitrox would have helped yes it COULD have.
There are other medical calls that could be the answer too, like PFO. As she has not been tested for it that may be also a reason. Getting bent can have a solid answer or a variable one. There is a lady on the board that got bent and her computer down load, her demeanor, her hydration, does not lend itself to a hit. Later medical test proved PFO. It will be closed and in all likelyhood she will dive again.
A couple of good questions for sure.
Rest is a big deal after doing chamber rides, so everyone get on her case.

Didn't she mention a significant change in diet too?

So many divers are quick to mention PFO, but the most recent DAN magazine discounts a lot of common hype about that. Anyone even thinking about PFO studies really needs to read it. http://www.alertdiver.com/294 It does not suggest PFO testing for a hit or two, and does not necessarily suggest surgery even it the common feature is found.

moderate consumption of coffee does not cause dehydration. Enjoy your morning coffee.

Nah, and a lot of depends on where it's part of your usual routine.

Coffee and diet coke are such a mild diuretic, how come I have to pee every time I drink the stuff, but not after I drink the same amount of water?

Things vary. Maybe you don't drink them often?

Kevin, take a few minutes and google "hydrating with coffee" or something similar. You will be surprised by what you find.

kari

What?

 

[DocVikingo]

Coffee is not a diuretic and does not dehydrate. Caffeine is a mild diuretic yes. The only way it will dehydrate you is by taking caffeine in excess by it self, IE: pills. The majority of people take Caffeine via soft drinks, coffee, and tea. The same fluid is retained whether you drink the same amount of water or caffeine drinks. There have been lots of studies done on this. This means there is no fluid-electrolyte imbalance. The amount of fluid you would have to drink in order to get enough caffeine in your system to dehydrate you, would still be greater than any fluid loss you would have from so called caffeine dehydradtion so its a transient result. A person would have to really over do it with caffeine to result in dehydration. It would take several thousand mg's in a short amount of time. Eating 200mg caffeine pills like skittles and washing it down with a six pack of redbulls in 10 minutes may get you started but the real worry would be you would have cardiac arrest before dehydration would get you.

Staffybull's position is fully consistent with the published science on the topic.

In order to get into worrisome territory one needs a caffeine intake that is wildly beyond what even a very heavy drinker of caffeinated coffee, soft drinks, etc. is exposed to. With anything approaching moderate drinking of such beverages you still end up with a substantial net gain of fluid. Of course this is not say that it's not preferable to drink an equivalent amount of H20, instead.

Regards,

DocVikingo

 

[DocVikingo]

As we all know the build up of nitrogen helps promote voiding so it's volume of fluid prior to diving in the body as vs drinking the coffee that causes the void effect.

Hi firstdive,

I find this comment potentially misleading.

"Nitrogen" (N) is a gas. It's the primary inert gas that builds up during SCUBA due to Dalton's law of partial pressures and the offending element in most cases of DCI.

Now, while indeed there is a relationship between a nitrogen compound in blood serum and frequency of voiding, this compound is urea nitrogen (NH2)2CO, which is molecular and not gaseous. It's very, very much different than nitrogen (N).

The amount of urea nitrogen in caffeinated beverages like coffee is zero. Moreover, to the best of my knowledge no meaningful relationship has been demonstrated between coffee consumption and blood urea nitrogen levels.

Regards,

DocVikingo

 

[Mawg]

Agreed 100%. As someone that just cannot handle the (lack of)taste of water I would have died of dehydration decades ago had it not been for Coffee and Diet Coke. There is no doubt that the fluids that accompany the caffeine in coffee and diet coke more than overcompensate for the very small diuretic effect of the caffeine. Alcohol and alcohol shots specifically are a little different as the diuretic component of alcohol is a lot stronger and it is also not usually taken with a lot of other fluids and hence the hangover (cerebral dehydration) and hence the prevention for a hangover is to take lots of fluids (even if it be diet coke )

The first place I hit when I get to Coz is the MEGA so that I can stock up on my Coke Lite - Dont want to get dehydrated

Craig[/QUOTE

Allow me please to throw in my 2 pesos worth of advice. I started drinking a liter of pedialyte the night before going diving years ago. Then I would follow that up with water and fruit on the boat the next day as usual. I have also been diving nitrox since 1995. So far so good. A side benefit of drinking the pedialyte is that it diminishes the hangover effect the next morning by at least 75%. ... Your mileage may vary.