Choosing my first rebreather SF2 vs JJ

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is there a need to return the unit to Mares/REVO for servicing? similiar to the JJ?
Revo diver here. In theory the factory (or authorised service provider) have the monopoly on the (internal) lungs. The reality is that there's supposed to be a 5 year service interval but everything you can get done locally (excepting the lungs). There's not even a need for specialist tools as an engineering principle was to use normal tools only.

Annual servicing would be the O-rings and maybe the mushroom valves. Regulator servicing is standard Apeks DS4s. BCD is a normal K valve, very much self-servicable.

I have a lightweight aluminum stand and it fits into a Pelicase for travel but is 26kg/57lbs. I know it's possible to use a lighter case -- @stuartv uses a cheap case and a dog cushion!

What I really like is it's strong (the lungs are inside), reliable (just is!), uses Shearwater Nerd & Petrel, has the two scrubbers which I will argue means it's safer and cheaper to run if doing a series of longer dives (you 'cycle' the scrubbers, moving the inhale scrubber to the exhale position, emptying and refilling the exhale scrubber and installing that on the inhale position. This uses 1.3kg/3lbs of scrubber and you're good to go.


Obviously it's well known that the rebreather you dive is the best one ever! You won't go wrong with a JJ, Revo or other common machines. Personally I'd avoid the SF2 as they're a bit specialist.
 
rEvo instructor and also Choptima diver here. Just disclaiming my prejudices. :D

I would not buy an SF2, period. I know a number of people who have had them, several of them being instructors on the unit. None of them dive them anymore. They were a hot fad for a minute, until everyone realized how terrible they breathe in almost any orientation other than the one orientation where they actually breathe decently. One friend was an SF2 instructor and a cave instructor. When he dived the SF2 in a cave, any time he had to do a head down descent - like going down through a chimney - he would switch to his open circuit bailout, because it just wouldn't breathe in that head down trim. He wouldn't dive the SF2 in the ocean - he dived a Meg instead. His deep wreck diving protocol was to point his scooter at the bottom and hit the trigger to get down. The SF2 wouldn't breathe like that (while the Meg still breathes just fine like that).

If the JJ is the only other option, then I would not have any problem with a JJ. I have not dived one, but I have a number of friends who do or did. At least has upgraded from a JJ to an X CCR. I like the X better, but the JJ would be acceptable.

If you want to travel, and you have Choptima support there, well, even though it's your first unit and I would generally recommend back mount for a first CCR, it would be hard to argue against you going with the Choptima. It is great for travel. Very light weight. Breathes awesome in all orientations.

But, I only use my Choptima for cave diving. I don't like the chest clutter. And I use mine with a sidemount rig and I don't like sidemount for ocean diving.

And I have a rEvo, so I don't NEED to use my Choptima for anything else.

rEvo is my choice for everything except cave diving. It is also great for travel. It does not breathe as well in all orientations as the Choptima. But, it does breathe well in "normal" trim and acceptably well in other trims. And it has many other advantages including being small and lightweight (I used to dive a Mini but moved on to a Micro, which I prefer), the rMS for monitoring scrubber status, the dual scrubbers, the hybrid operation (Constant Mass Flow orifice plus electronic solenoid), it's VERY low profile on your back, gives a VERY clean and uncluttered chest area, and it is "dense" for lack of a better word. It is lightweight and yet also requires little or no lead added for buoyancy. I frequently dive a 5mm wetsuit in the ocean, with 3L steel cylinders on the rEvo and I don't need any lead - not for buoyancy or to get good, horizontal trim.

And it can run up to 5 O2 sensors. You can even fit 6 without too much trouble, but it is actually setup from the factory for 5. People diving with only 3 sensors like to dismiss the value of having 5. Personally, I have found 5 to be very valuable. In short, you can have a controller failure or an O2 sensor board failure on the rEvo. When that happens, you lose use of the 3 sensors connected to that subsytem. With any 3-cell CCR, the O2 sensor board failure would cause you to lose ALL ppO2 monitoring. With the rEvo and 2 additional cells connected to a monitor (like a NERD), you can easily and safely finish your dive staying on the loop as normal.

If the controller and/or O2 board are totally dead and you have more diving to do before you can get replacements, you can move an O2 sensor over from the dead controller/board to the NERD monitor and continue diving the unit, with 3 O2 sensors, operating it as a pure manual unit. You cannot do that with a JJ or other 3-cell unit (that I know of). At least, not if the 3-cells are all connected only to the DiveCAN system in the unit. The rEvo monitor subsystem is COMPLETELY physically independent from the controller subsystem.

And, it is a robust unit. I've bought all of mine used and they just work. My counterlungs are all well past their 5 year service interval and still in very good shape with no need to be replaced.
 
Another nice thing about the Choptima is that you can take whatever open circuit rig you currently use - single tank, back mount doubles, or sidemount - and add just one LP hose to one of your first stage regs, and now you can clip on the Choptima, connect the LP hose (for your dil) and go diving on CCR. Disconnect the LP hose, unclip the Choptima and drop it, and you're back to diving your normal OC setup.

My last two trips were to the Red Sea and to Truk Lagoon. On both trips, I did a mix of more-or-less recreational/NDL diving and legit tech dives. I didn't take my Choptima on either trip, but it really would have been nice to have, so I could just dive OC for the dives where I would get no benefit from being on CCR. That would have saved me money. And then use the Choptima on the legit tech dives, where I would really benefit from being on CCR.

Instead, I did only OC in the Red Sea - and that was fine. It wasn't enough tech diving for me to decide to deal with the extra logistics of taking the Chop.

And I took my rEvo to Truk - because I prefer it for ocean diving and, honestly, I trust its robustness more and I have a much more complete set of spares for it. I could have handled any rEvo failure except a counter lung. With the Chop, I don't have as many spares and would have been able to fix many less possibilities.
 
Obviously it's well known that the rebreather you dive is the best one ever! You won't go wrong with a JJ, Revo or other common machines. Personally I'd avoid the SF2 as they're a bit specialist.
There are not many support within my country or the immediate neighbouring country. Point taken on the SF2! Am very curious what type of mission is the SF2 design for!
 
If you want to travel, and you have Choptima support there, well, even though it's your first unit and I would generally recommend back mount for a first CCR, it would be hard to argue against you going with the Choptima. It is great for travel. Very light weight. Breathes awesome in all orientations.
The Choptima was initially in one of my list but Iif I do recall that one of my instructor who dive both the SF2 and Choptima told me that he would not bring the Choptima any deeper than 65m for some reason that I can't recall at the moment
 
There are not many support within my country or the immediate neighbouring country. Point taken on the SF2! Am very curious what type of mission is the SF2 design for!

It was popular with cave divers when it came out because it does have the ability to be flooded, get all the water out, and continue a dive on the loop. In contrast, if you flood a rEvo during a dive, you will not be able to get the water out until after you get out of the water yourself. Fortunately, a rEvo is a lot less likely to flood than just about any other unit. It only has 2 hoses in the breathing loop, so only 2 connections and no "T" pieces. Other popular units have 4 hoses, 2 T pieces, and, thus, 6 connections, each with O-rings.

The Choptima was initially in one of my list but Iif I do recall that one of my instructor who dive both the SF2 and Choptima told me that he would not bring the Choptima any deeper than 65m for some reason that I can't recall at the moment

I know people that have taken the Choptima to anywhere from 100m to 150m. I don't know any reason a Choptima is unsuitable for deep dives.

Keep in mind, no matter WHAT CCR you dive, you always have to be prepared on each dive for the unit to completely fail. And, ANY unit CAN completely fail. A loop hose could rip open. A controller could totally die. An O2 board could die. A dil or O2 reg could blow out its HP seat. A counterlung OPV could totally come apart. A counterlung could rip/blow open.

There are many possibilities for failure. Some are manageable and you can stay on the loop. Some mean you are going to finish your dive off the loop, period.

If you are diving a CCR properly, then a complete failure is an inconvenience, not a life-threatening event.
 
The Choptima was initially in one of my list but Iif I do recall that one of my instructor who dive both the SF2 and Choptima told me that he would not bring the Choptima any deeper than 65m for some reason that I can't recall at the moment

There was a great discussion recently here about the Choptima and MOD3 diving and gas planning. A lot of pros/cons thrown around which you might find interesting including a lot of talk about backmount vs. chestmount.
 
There are not many support within my country or the immediate neighbouring country. Point taken on the SF2! Am very curious what type of mission is the SF2 design for!
In a nutshell: The loop design is based on the Halcyon RB80, and some cave divers seem to like both RB80 (SCR) and SF2 (CCR). The SF2 seems it has its followers, but for open water many find it limiting, as the posts above indicate.
 
Hi all! I'm here looking for advice on which rebreather to get! Living in Singapore, there is not much CCR diver presence and the one of the only means to get certified would be to cross the border to Malaysia (about 4 hrs) to get any form of technical diving training. The dive shop I'm approaching (and where I did my Padi Tec 50) offer to sell a lightly used SF2 (but manufactured many years back) inclusive of the course at about 5500 USD. During my try ccr with the unit (my first experience in a ccr), I find the unit really hard to breathe to the point where my chest felt like it was burning and buoyancy all over the place. However, articles online informed me that its normal and will be better after getting more experience.

However, I also have been reading online where there are multiple users recommending the JJ CCR over the SF2 due to the easier WOB and reliability which the dive shop teaches on as well!

Would like to seek some opinions if I should spend the money on a new JJ CCR or go for the used SF2 use the money I saved for CCR consumables and future courses down the line?

My end goal for diving with a CCR would be for deep wrecks and cave diving!​
As a SF2 diver with about 100 hours on the unit here are my thoughts for your consideration.;
1. My first time on the unit in shallow water also sucked, going from OC to CCR moving air around the unit with your lung is alot different from OC diving. I got used to it after couple of dives.
2. Ensure all factory parts are available. Some people buy the "stripped" version and do not have all the shut-off valves.
3. Does the unit have one or two computer cables? if it only has the controller 5 pin cable and you want to add fischer cable for a HUD or NERD the scubaforce charges alot of money to install it.
4. If you are looking to dive CAVE or WRECK in the future you might consider getting the sidemount conversion kit. the conversion kit is not cheap (MSRP $4000).

I considered crossing over to JJ for a while until I realized its not an ideal unit for wetsuit diving.

My personal opinion on WOB, in any CCR if you have ****** trim the WOB sucks.
 

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