Chicken or egg...doubles or class?

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MechDiver once bubbled...

Sure you can teach yourself how to dive doubles, but just as a lawyer is his own worst client, a student is his own worst teacher IMO.

MD

It's not rocket science. I'd say that getting a chance to use something like heavy steel doubles before a class is a boon, not a bane. Just make sure it's a controlled environ. Don't think you're going to jump off on that 100' wreck for the first dive in your doubles.

The balance and inertia, not to mention getting to the water, is something better experienced prior to class. I for one don't want to chew up valuable class time getting used to my gear. I'd much rather be familar with it's characteristics, and then listen to the instructor for hints and tips.

If there's one thing that peeves me in a class, it's someone that didn't make the effort to research or try something out and now they are using up class time for the instructor to give remedial training.

MechDiver, I do think it's possible to "over-learn" bad habits prior to proper instruction (which I think speaks to your point), but I still think that it's good to practice a bit with the equipment first.
 
cwb once bubbled...


MechDiver, I do think it's possible to "over-learn" bad habits prior to proper instruction (which I think speaks to your point), but I still think that it's good to practice a bit with the equipment first.

I'm evidently not getting my point across. IF the purpose of the class is to teach you how to use some type of equipment, then what would be the purpose of making a substantial equipment purchase beforehand, that may or may not be correct (someone said stroke), so you can "practice" :confused:

Sure you can read up on what the class offers, what is expected, and what you want to get out of it, but spending upwards of $1500 on gear you may never use again doesn't make sense to me. (Cheap because I already had reg, bp)

MD
 
cwb once bubbled...
MechDiver, I do think it's possible to "over-learn" bad habits prior to proper instruction (which I think speaks to your point), but I still think that it's good to practice a bit with the equipment first.
What are some of the bad habits?
 
vodolaz once bubbled...
What are some of the bad habits?

Cages, yokes, convoluted hose rigging, BWOD, excessive wing sizes, too small/too large tanks, weighting issues, 16 d-rings...

There are lots
 
MechDiver once bubbled...


Cages, yokes, convoluted hose rigging, BWOD, excessive wing sizes, too small/too large tanks, weighting issues, 16 d-rings...

There are lots
Since I wasn't dinged in Fundamentals class on any of those you mentioned, I guess I can relax.

I thought maybe there were some bad trim habits or something I'd have to unlearn.
 
MechDiver once bubbled...
I'm evidently not getting my point across. IF the purpose of the class is to teach you how to use some type of equipment, then what would be the purpose of making a substantial equipment purchase beforehand, that may or may not be correct (someone said stroke), so you can "practice" :confused:

I understand your point just fine, I just don't exactly agree with it.
So you dont want to spend a bunch of $$ on doubles to practice with, that is understandable. BUT there are alternatives.

As far as buying equipment beforehand, one of the things I do is communicate with my potential instructors exactly what gear I have and exactly what gear they require. Most of them will have any gear you need available for use/rent, so that will keep you from having to spend a lot of money on gear until you know exactly what it is you need or want.

As far as doubles go, there are alternatives. Buy just a set of bands if you want, and double up a pair of AL80's. You don't have to manifold them together in order to get used to the bouyancy characteristics of them. And I am pretty certain you can find two AL80's somewhere to rent/borrow. So all you would be out was the cost of the bands, and you can prolly Ebay them pretty easily if you decided doubles werent for you. If you can find some steel tanks to do this with, it's even better. I'm also not saying that you have to be 100% proficient with them. But a little familiarity goes a long way to keep you from floundering around while trying to learn other skills in a class setting. (plus it's not nearly as embarrassing that way)

Even if this isnt exactly the setup you will be using for your course, it will allow you to get some experience.

I also disagree with the statement about "if the purpose of the class is to teach you to use them." As I started getting into more advanced types of diving, it was pretty well expected that the student already have SOME familiarity with the equipment PRIOR to enrolling in the class. If not, expect to spend a few extra days and a few extra $$ while the instructor "babysits."

I can fully understand and sympathize with concerns about spending large amounts of cash to find out something isn't for you. I was fortunate in the fact that I was able to borrow a set of doubles to practice with prior to my cave class, and I was able to use that same set for my class. Believe me, it made a WORLD of difference.

Just keep in mind that there are alternatives to be found if you really want to.

But the most important thing to remember, is that what works for me, may not work for you. You have to do it the way that YOU feel comfortable.
 
Diving with doubles is not that difficult and most of the guys I dive with feel they are more stable than singles. Ideally, you can find some people to dive with that are already using that type of setup and learn from them...that's what I did. I learned more from my technical buddies than I learned in any classes...they are an incredible resource if you are lucky enough to have them.

The danger in diving doubles, IMHO, is that you now have the capability to VASTLY overstay NDLs and rack up serious deco if you don't know what you are doing. I suppose false security could also be a danger...i.e. "Oh, now I have redundancy and I can penetrate this wreck, cave, etc." without having the proper training and practice/experience.
 
Very good points O-ring.
 
vodolaz once bubbled...
Since I wasn't dinged in Fundamentals class on any of those you mentioned, I guess I can relax.

I thought maybe there were some bad trim habits or something I'd have to unlearn.

You being in the Fundamentals and all, they probably didn't want to hurt your feelings. Once you get into the *real* stuff, they'll most likely get you squared away.

Have a good day.
 
Cave Diver once bubbled...


I understand your point just fine, I just don't exactly agree with it.
So you dont want to spend a bunch of $$ on doubles to practice with, that is understandable. BUT there are alternatives.

We're both talking apples, but there is an orange getting in the way somewhere.

I conceed de feet.
 
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