Chicken or egg...doubles or class?

[bwerb]

This is a purely speculative question. I am not personally planning on getting into doubles diving for some time, I'm just curious as to the progression states. Does a person typically put together a set of doubles and try them out on their own or does a person put a set together and take a class immediately?

I have been reading all the various threads on GUE Tech 1/IANTD/TEC REC etc. Every class requirement states that you need your own gear (and from everything I've read concerning the gear it seems to require a great deal of expertise to use). But then I look at the DIRF course which is a "pre-tech" course and it says doubles are ok...forgive me I'm just working through all the details...I assume this option is for people who already have some tech training and are wanting to improve on their basic skills with this set-up before advancing...yes?no?

Would someone who has never dove doubles before take DIRF in a single, then practice until the skills are really top notch, then go onto a Tech class and learn all about doubles as the next step?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Cave Diver]

I would recommend getting the doubles and practicing with them in confined water before taking any class. Most classes produce enough task loading as it is without having to fight with new equipment considerations as well.

In the DIRF class, you are allowed to use whatever tank configuration you want, but if you jump into it using doubles for the first time, you are asking for trouble (follow THIS LINK see my DIRF report re: ED).

My understanding of the Tech1 or Cave1 course assumes a certain proficency with doubles already.

 

[bwerb]

Cave Diver once bubbled...
I would recommend getting the doubles and practicing with them in confined water before taking any class. Most classes produce enough task loading as it is without having to fight with new equipment considerations as well.

.

OK, so how would one know what they are doing on the new gear if they have not taken a class previously? I guess you could ask the shop for a one on one to go over any new product in confined water...am I warm?

 

[Cave Diver]

Well, for one, making sure that you are familiar with the equipment. How to set it up, how it works, etc.

Next is how it feels in the water. If you are ready for tech classes I would hope a rudimentary understanding of trim/balance and proper positioning in the water.

Depending on what size and type of double (AL vs Steel) they have different characteristics. If your gear is improperly positioned or configured you may find that you have tendency to "roll" and hard to maintain horizontal trim.

I wouldnt say that you need someone to instruct you in the use, tho it certainly wouldnt hurt. More important is for you to practice and make adjustments until the rig feels "right" to you.

It IS important to have a buddy with you that understands what you are doing and who can give you feedback on what he saw during the dive which will aid you in making those adjustments. Also, who will be nearby to help in case of any "issues" that may arise.

I strongly advocate checking out new gear in confined water until you are comfortable with it, and I try to avoid situations where both me and my buddy are in new configurations. On these "training" dives I prefer that the other person be in a familiar rig as it takes some of the variables out of the situation.

 

[MechDiver]

Afraid I would have to disagree with Cave Diver. I did about as opposite as you could do I guess and did not buy anything for the doubles class.

I did already have a bp&w that I was diving singles with, but I did not know if I really wanted to dive doubles, although I did want to see what they were all about. I found an instructor who supplied all the equipment I needed for the IANTD Deep diver and Adv. Nitrox classes and went from there.

To me, the classes exist to TEACH you HOW to dive this type of equipment. This is one area that I stronly disagree with the GUE philosophy, iin that, by some strange and wonderous process, you are supposed to know how to do everything before you take one of their classes.

Sure you can teach yourself how to dive doubles, but just as a lawyer is his own worst client, a student is his own worst teacher IMO.

MD

 

[vodolaz]

MechDiver once bubbled...
Sure you can teach yourself how to dive doubles, but just as a lawyer is his own worst client, a student is his own worst teacher IMO.

MD

That may be true; I don't know. But I learned to use doubles on my own, and later took a DIR Fundamentals class without any criticism related to their use. Being already familiar with them allowed me to focus on the tasks at hand without having to "fight" my gear.

But that's just me. I guess it varies for individuals.

Guess I'll find out for sure in cave class if I should have done it the other way.

 

[Cave Diver]

MechDiver once bubbled...
To me, the classes exist to TEACH you HOW to dive this type of equipment. This is one area that I stronly disagree with the GUE philosophy, iin that, by some strange and wonderous process, you are supposed to know how to do everything before you take one of their classes.

Sure you can teach yourself how to dive doubles, but just as a lawyer is his own worst client, a student is his own worst teacher IMO.

MD

That's great if you have someone dedicated to spending some time with you to do that. But often, when you go into a class, they are going to assume you have some sort of proficiency and experience with the gear beforehand.

I personally prefer to do as much work on my own prior to class so that I am fully prepared when I get there. This lets you concentrate on the meat and potatoes of the course instead of focusing on the salad.

But as they say, "different strokes for different folks" (no pun intended).

 

[joens]

when I took my Deco Procedures course it was my first time in doubles .they were rented from the instructor .the first 3 dives were mainly getting used to them . I would have preferred to get at least a half dozen dives in with them before the class but none of the LDS near me do anything with doubles [the last time I had them filled the operator did not believe that you could fill both tanks from the one valve .we filled the "first tank " then he wanted to fill the other . ]in a perfect world you could rent several different double sets , steel,aluminium ,diferent sizes and find out what you like or what matches your style of diving then buy a set that is perfect for you then go take your classes totally comfortable with your gear and able to pay attention in class instead of getting used to gear.
Joens

 

[MechDiver]

Cave Diver once bubbled...

That's great if you have someone dedicated to spending some time with you to do that. But often, when you go into a class, they are going to assume you have some sort of proficiency and experience with the gear beforehand.

I agree with most of your statements, but, at least in the case of the deep diver class, the purpose is to teach you how to dive doubles in an extended range dive. That presupposes that you do not have experience with them. And it also gives you the chance to try that style of diving/equipment without a huge outlay in equipment that you may decide you can't/don't want to use.

You and joens both bring out good points; classes are generally easier if you are familiar with the equipment you will use. My IANTD instructor would not do a trimix class unless I owned all my own gear, and that is as it should be as it's too late to be dealing with equipment issues at that stage.

Contrary to joens' experience, I was using the same equipment during the deco class that I needed to do the deco class, so the two went hand in hand. I don't feel I lost anything buy not having doubles experience beforehand.

MD

 

[bwerb]

class would solve these problems...PADI Introduction to Doubles Diving ...Please read firmly with tongue in cheek.

Seriously though, an introductory class taught in an informal way would be of great benefit. Here are the gear variables, here's how to assemble and care for them. Now into the pool for a check-out on trim and buoyancy. Next a couple simple "training dives" in uncomplicated situations with close supervision. Nothing at all about the other tech info, just how to get a feel for the gear without the added task loading on one side or the pitfalls of self-discovered and ingrained bad habits from the start.