Chewed up and spit out

[Johnoly]

If three things have gone awry, then thumb it.

Care to elaborate on "3' and done"....

It really comes from reading all the 'Accidents' deaths. In every single case where details were provided, you can just read the 'chain of events' that led up to the death. And if the diver had just broken the 'chain' by aborting they would still be alive. It's all those small little problems that we think we can push through or ignore that just keep the chain headed towards death. When it happens to me, I know my concentration is not focused on the dive and mistakes are being made. I can mentally count them off and it's always little stuff that just adds up.

It's extremely hard to abort a dive because of all the time, money, and prep. But reading the accidents thread makes the abort decision so much easier to do underwater. Just go topside, re-work gear, fix what's broken, make a new plan and then go back in the water if reasonable. The main thing I do is get my head focused and stop dealing with problems.

Reading the accidents threads is like a monthly refresher course on how to stick to ' 3 and done'. It's the most valuable part of ScubaBoard to me.

 

[JamesBon92007]

I bought some used gear from a guy who used to live in Fiji. He told me they anchored a chain in concrete in the water (just past the rough spots) and on land. They used the chain to assist in entry and exit. I think it might be more difficult with a scooter.

 

[Frontpointer1000]

It's all those small little problems that we think we can push through or ignore that just keep the chain headed towards death.

This is an interesting philosophy. How do you count the errors? Or how do you differentiate between an error/mistake versus just a problem that you encountered?
Certainly there is a well-established perspective that most errors leading to death can be attributed to a chain of accidents or errors. But what do you actually count as an error or mistake?

In the above scenario, I would have counted using a scooter and turning it on in the shallow depths, with large amount of silt as a mistake. However, the mask, and the surge, and the free-flowing regulator were all easily overcome and I’m not sure those should be counted in a chain of events.

In the chain of events theory, one error leads to another mistake/ error which activates other issues in an ever-escalating fashion. One could say starting the scooter in the shallows lead to not being able to clear the mask as easily (both hands were engaged in dealing with the scooter). Or I could say starting out in the shallows with large amounts of silt lead to three independent events, the mask and the stuck scooter and the free flowing reg. kicking out and then dropping down may have been a solution, but there were surfers and the surge/waves were pretty heavy. without gaming the system, I would be interested in seeing other people‘s interpretation of how the chain of events was connected, as opposed to a collection of independent events. Thoughts on this?

 

[JohnnyC]

Damn dude, when you incident, you incident hard! Glad you're still kicking.

 

[Johnoly]

... In the chain of events theory, one error leads to another mistake/ error which activates other issues in an ever-escalating fashion....

These are just my personal rules and not for everyone. My chain of events start the second I start to lean back to backroll off, or I step in water for a shore dive. Examples of " My 3 " are:

* Dropping ANYTHING ! Fin, Mask, Clip, bug bag, spearshaft, Glove, smb, reel, camera, knife, lionfish spear, looper, stringer, etc.
* BUBBLES anywhere besides exhaust tee. This comes from cave diving and doing bubble check. Leaky inflator button? event ding
* Losing the line (flag line, gold line, jump line, any line)
* Equipment breaking - scooter stuck, rubber band on speargun snaps, bug bag clip twists off, weight pocket falls out, ANY buckle breaking, etc
* Injury - Getting bit, cut that draws blood, painful leg cramp, head bump on something.

My 'events' may have zero direct influence on a near death accident, but the dives most of us do are advanced and your mind needs to be clear and focused on your task what ever that may be. Again, just me but breaking focus and concentration means I'm not prepared and the next event maybe something I can't undo in time.

P.S. Everyone always asks "what caused the accident?" looking for that one event to put a finger on. IE: The teenager wouldn't have rear-ended the vehicle in front if they weren't texting and they wouldn't have been texting if the phone was in the bag, and the they wouldn't have heard it if it was powered off. Break / remove just one of these events and the accident would never have happened. So what cause the rear-end accident? The phone was turned on.

 

[northernone]

This is an interesting philosophy. How do you count the errors? Or how do you differentiate between an error/mistake versus just a problem that you encountered?
Certainly there is a well-established perspective that most errors leading to death can be attributed to a chain of accidents or errors. But what do you actually count as an error or mistake?

In the above scenario, I would have counted using a scooter and turning it on in the shallow depths, with large amount of silt as a mistake. However, the mask, and the surge, and the free-flowing regulator were all easily overcome and I’m not sure those should be counted in a chain of events.

In the chain of events theory, one error leads to another mistake/ error which activates other issues in an ever-escalating fashion. One could say starting the scooter in the shallows lead to not being able to clear the mask as easily (both hands were engaged in dealing with the scooter). Or I could say starting out in the shallows with large amounts of silt lead to three independent events, the mask and the stuck scooter and the free flowing reg. kicking out and then dropping down may have been a solution, but there were surfers and the surge/waves were pretty heavy. without gaming the system, I would be interested in seeing other people‘s interpretation of how the chain of events was connected, as opposed to a collection of independent events. Thoughts on this?

I know I get task loaded. For example: rush off a boat, current headed backwards, buddy negative dropped. By the time I'm properly 20ft deep if my mask flooded, I'd find it took more effort and caused more distress than if the events leading up to it were all smooth and easy.

In this dive, the issues were all environmental factors related. The silt, the surge and the viz. With better skills it could have been a fine dive, with better planning or technique. It's divable conditions for someone, just not me comfortably on that practical day.

Another angle, soome of my friends are superstitious, 3 bad omens and the fates decree we shouldn't dive (or hunt, or travel or do an activity)... I tend to think there's practical wisdom in the old beliefs. When "everything" starts going wrong, panic isn't far away. Nice to be comfortably back on shore before reaching that point.

Looking back on my dive, I semi "called it" when I took shelter to reorient myself, that time off to pause I use to reset myself (clear my buffer, catch my breath, dust out the cobwebs, silence the monkey) and start the dive fresh again.... Even though I'm still underwater, water is home. It's a technique I use frequently to stage my dive plans. Check points, resetting focus.

Interesting discussion!

Maybe that's a version.
Cameron

 

[shoredivr]

Where is this dive site, anyway?

 

[northernone]

Where is this dive site, anyway?

Benign Mexico!

Back home on James bay (Arctic ocean) we have fairly nice calm wave patterns which aren't suitable for surfers and when the winds are that bad we get on the leeside.

For unrelated interest here's 3 days ago. Students OW check out dive site, weather conditions were suitable:

 

[Akimbo]

Here's an exercise that might make this even more of a learning experience. I know the mindset has helped me.

One of the biggest challenges for me when I transitioned from recreational diver to military and commercial diver was figuring out HOW to safely accomplish a dive AND get the work done. This was the essence of my new career, especially in the early days of the North Sea oil fields. First define the task or the dive objective. Then imagine what it would take to accomplish it, regardless of the budget required to make it happen. Let your imagination run wild.

The next step is to reevaluate your dive plan and think about how you could reduce the cost of the dive without compromising safety or accomplishing the task. Safety is critically important beyond the humanitarian aspect because hurting divers loses contracts, insurance, and divers willing to work with you -- EPIC FAIL! Do that smarter than everyone else and you win the bid for the job. Do that enough times while getting difficult jobs done and you don't have to be the low bidder every time because you can be relied on.

Obviously, the answer for most recreational divers is not to make the dive at all. However, this mental exercise can teach you a lot about dive and contingency planning. It can also make some dives safe and enjoyable that you would otherwise call. Any newbie can plan a dive when everything goes right, it is being prepared to handle the contingies that keeps divers alive, at every level.

 

[lionfish-eater]

While you are there, maybe you can update the wiki page.

Oujé-Bougoumou, Quebec - Wikipedia