cheap halcyon gear

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

hi... i'm a newbie... done a few dives... but haven't bought a bc or regs yet...

I'm in a wetsuit (for now) in bc, (Cold Water)

Would anyone recommend the BP/W for a newbie? Does anyone know anyone in the Vancouver area who sells them... or preferably... rents them...

I'd love to try them out b4 making a decision.
 
Absolutely, I would recommend a BP&W for a newbie. I wish that I had started out in one. Then I wouldn't have an $800.00 mistake, also known as my old BC, gathering dust in my garage.

At the LDS where I am an AI, we put well over 2/3's of our students into BP&W's. I've fit a few dozen myself. So far, everyone seems to like them.

Bwerb can probably give you some information. He lives out near you.
 
I bought my 36 lbs Pioneer system for $430 from... someone. I got an email address from.... somewhere, and said person hooked me up. Problem is I had a hard drive crash and last time I backed up was about a week before I ordered the Pioneer.

I think I may have PM'd raybo (see this thread) for why.

You have another option for a good single tank bp/wing setup now, too.

Head to http://www.oxycheq.com/Bouyancy.html and check out the 30# or 45# single tank wing. These plates are also top notch. The guy who I suppose designed (and makes?) them is Scott Koplin of www.selchie.com

I suggest you contact him at info@selchie.com and ask how much it would be for a complete setup. I also know East Coast Divers in Framingham has even better prices on the wings ($215 for the 30# and $255 for the 45#), but I'm not sure if they'll sell complete setups. Fire off another email to Lubold8431@yahoo.com and ask. Chances are you'll get a better deal on the Oxycheq bp/wing than the Halcyon. Good luck!
 
jonnythan once bubbled...
I bought my 36 lbs Pioneer system for $430 from... someone. I got an email address from.... somewhere, and said person hooked me up. Problem is I had a hard drive crash and last time I backed up was about a week before I ordered the Pioneer.

I think I may have PM'd raybo (see this thread) for why.



Yes, I think you got some contact info form me. Don't remember how I got it. I ordered a BP, 36# Pioneer wing, harness, tanks straps & MC Pac. Didn't have any problems with the sale or delivery.

Think with shipping it was like $455 or so.

Ended up also buying a 1/4" (9#) BP from Gary. One word description of that ~ rugged. (That's a good thing to me) Poured a keel weight into it. Total is +/-16. Depending on what tank & undies, I add form nothting to about 8lbs. I like that flexibility. With 7mm neoprene dry, haven't even had the Halcyon plate wet. Save it for the Carribean.

As for recommending it to a newbie? Absolutely. Like NEWrecks, I've got a big back inflate (that really isn't a bad BC) collecting dust in a storage closet.

I'm still working on weighting (does that ever end?) and tank position (<10 dives on it, and 4 different singles on it ~ AL63, AL80, AL100 & a steel 120) but when it's set right, it's a very balanced setup.

If I'd been aware of the setup when I seriously got back into diving a little over a year ago, I never would have bought my back inflate.
 
atomiton once bubbled...
Would anyone recommend the BP/W for a newbie? Does anyone know anyone in the Vancouver area who sells them... or preferably... rents them...

Check your PM's!

Brian
 
MikeFerrara once bubbled...


Like what?

If I'm going to dive a single tank, I pull my plate and harness off my doubles and slap it on a single tank with an h-valve and a different wing.

Any time you disassemble the rig to any degree, it is an opportunity for something to go wrong. This is why I said that modularity can be a weakness.


FWIW, I particualrly dislike the wingnuts on some Single Tank Adaptor designs, even those where the fasteners are designed to be captive (captive fasteners are another 'mixed blessing' trade-off).



Not to mention the fact that a plate does a nicer job of holding the tank and bladder on your back and that's what it's there for.

"Nicer" in comparison to what? A BC with a soft backpack? Or one with a hard backpack?

I also don't care for soft backpack designs either, even though they often travel smaller and lighter.

But the facts of the matter are that hard backpacks are not exclusive to the BP/Wing: you can get a hard backpack without going to a BP/Wing, and when properly rigged, they provide a platform that's equally rigid for single tank applications...and often do it without the discomfort of a crotch strap.


Granted, I will agree that a BP/Wing is better than a horsecollar BC and separate tank on a hard backpack, but I haven't dived with a horsecollar rig in ~20 years...and I still don't miss the crotch strap. :)


-hh
 
-hh once bubbled...
I have a hard time paying $500-$600 for a BC that doesn't even come assembled.
-hh

What and miss the whole hour it takes to put it together? And it will fit better than any off the shelf jacket BC. But then jacket BC's are fine for 80% of divers ....
 
bwerb once bubbled...
-hh...you understand engineering...what's so difficult and "a potential weakness" in the modularity of a system which uses two stainless steel wingnuts as the parts you have to undo and redo to switch wings...ie. the modular part? I just don't see the operation of two wingnuts as "mucking around" and "an opportunity to make mistakes."

The wing nuts are a wear item, as well as an opportunity for an assembly mistake to be made (a failure in the making). From a Hogarthian philisophical approach, if something can be eliminated as a potential failure point, it should be.

Pragmatically, the sole purpose of the BP/Wings' modularity is to save the diver money (by not having 2 BC's), which is not the same as striving to eliminate potential failure points. As such, its basic design violates fundimental Hogarthian principles.

And as we know, Hogarthian was the root of DIR, and GUE.

(BTW, if you didn't hear, a Trademark on DIR has been applied for...but not by GUE!).



Since when diving doubles you tend to remove the wing from the tanks for drying, filling etc...just where does the difficulty lie? Since the operation takes like two minutes tops, I don't see how this is a great vacuum of free time.

Errors can be made in even easy procedures, and opportunities for errors is "any and all" measurement. This means that disassembly for maintenance or drying counts. So too also does removing the tanks to fill them.

For every opportunity, we can either accept it, or look to eliminate them. There will never be zero of them, but in the case of a modular BP/Wing/STA assembly, we've generally chosen to accept more error opportunities than what can exist from known alternatives.

Why? Well, since we inevitably see dollar signs in conversations like this, its safe to say that divers are willing to accept the risk to save money. We simply need to recognize that this individual choice doesn't change what is or isn't an Objective Risk.

EDIT: Also note that the amount of time it takes to do something is not a direct factor when it comes to the metric of "Opportunity for Mistake". It is an indirect factor in that tasks that take longer are generally more complex, and each step typically is an error opportunity.



Also...since a BP/wing can be had for a fraction the cost of most "tech" or "top of the line" BC's and can be used for either singles or doubles with simply a wing switch (around $350), why would you want to buy two complete set-ups?

The reason why is because doing so can eliminate error/failure points.

Consider flipping the question: is it worth $150 to you to eliminate a a "dive ending" failure point?
Is it worth an extra $100 if it improves the equipment's repair interval by 75%? By 100%?

(BTW, please look at these questions as generalized examples of the underlying principle, and not specifics).


IMO, it is all too easy to allow the cost of doing something the right way to adversely influence our risk acceptances.

And IMO, it is often quite ironic to see loud claims about the "EVILS" of Quick Disconnects as potential failure points when the same people unthinkingly accept STA wing nuts.




This is the same bunk some LDS's use to badmouth Bp/wings. Oh yeah...once you buy a BP...you'll never have to buy another one...

Since the average diver only dives for ~5 years, that's the benchmark for how long a product is expected to reliably last, and from which LDS claims are going to be based.

My last BC lasted for over a decade...which is functionally two full "average diver lifetimes"...before I replaced it. I consider that to be good enough lifecycle performance.




...and wings are relatively cheap


Considering that $300-350 for a replacement wing is 50%-66% of the prices of those allegedly horribly overpriced BC's, I'd not exactly agree that a wing is a "relatively cheap" consumable replacement item. Perhaps its because I've never seen these fabled $1000 BC's...can you please cite some examples?


YMMV, but I'd just rather just spend another $100-$150 and get a completely new rig, as likely the better overall value. Particularly since when you get "Nickled and Dimed" on little widgets (a set of spare SS wingnuts anyone?), it often ends up costing you more in the long run.


-hh
 
My last BC lasted for over a decade...which is functionally two full "average diver lifetimes"...before I replaced it. I consider that to be good enough lifecycle performance.

Oh, and my maintenance costs over those ten years consisted of:

- Replaced Tank Strap - once
- Replaced Power Inflator assembly - twice.

All told, probably just over $100.


-hh
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

Back
Top Bottom