Challenge: can Scubaboard collaboratively design a fundamentals skills course?

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This topic really could open a can of worms. My input: (and it's not nearly as backed by experience as many of the divers, DMs and instructors) Is that for a true "fill in the gap" solution to be found, it'd have to be so individually tailored, that it would be difficult if not impossible to standardize. Some people will find certain skills easy, and others may need some extra practice to gain the same level of proficiency.
Since my workshop provided some of the impetus for this conversation, let me give you a little background ... because it relates directly to what UnderwaterMedic has stated ... the workshop I offer is individually tailored to the needs of the student.

A few months ago I was contacted by a local diver ... a member of this board ... who had some questions about a class. As we were exchanging emails, it occurred to me that none of the standardized classes would provide what he was asking for. Although an AOW class ... even the one that I teach ... would cover part of it, it wouldn't really provide all of what he was asking for. And because of the standards, it would also include things he didn't ask for. So I decided to create a skills workshop that address his needs specifically. You can read about that first class here ... http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...-new-diver-can-spend-anything-right-here.html

After Jeff's workshop, he created that thread and a similar one on one of our local boards. Since then I've been surprised by how many folks have contacted me that want to take something like it. Here is an email from one of my most recent inquiries ... I've received several like it over the past four months ...

I am a new diver looking for some lessons, I did my OW and AOW straight after in november last year and have 25 dives . I have started diving weekly in a group but I'm currently struggling with buoyancy and trim after get in a drysuit, after 2 very floaty dives (3 and 4 in a drysuit) I have taken to bouncing off the bottom and sucking gas like crazy for the last 3 dives (I think this may be a mind thing) how much are your lessons and what is your availability?

Each applicant has somewhat different stories and goals, but they almost always boil down to buoyancy, trim, weighting, and propulsion issues. And each has somewhat different backgrounds, although what they have in common is that they're all relatively new, inexperienced, or ... like Jeff ... people returning to diving after a long hiatus.

In each case, we exchange emails and phone calls, and based on what they tell me I create a curriculum that addresses their specific concerns. In the one I taught two weeks ago the diver was brand new to a drysuit, and so we incorporated drysuit training into the class. In other cases, they're in a wetsuit, or sufficiently confident in their drysuit skills that we don't need to address the basics, and can focus more on fine-tuning skills. But in all cases, we address the issues of concern, which so far have always boiled down to the "basic four" of buoyancy, trim, weighting and propulsion. Almost always there is an expressed concern of using a lot of air ... that gets addressed in the process of working on the other skills.

We'll always start out with an evening or morning of going over their gear ... making sure everything's working, fits properly, and is appropriate to the dives we're doing. I don't mandate any specific equipment ... I'll just as happily train in split fins and jacket BCD as I will in blade fins, long hose and backplate. That's up to the student's preference. What I WILL do is describe to you the advantages, drawbacks, and limitations of your equipment choices ... because it has a bearing on what we'll be able to accomplish. In other words, don't ask me to teach you a back kick in split fins. I can't even do it ... much less teach it. I'll happily show you how to do a modified frog kick in those split fins, and how to do the equivalent of a helicopter kick ... both of which are easily achievable, although slightly different than how you'd do them in blades. I'll happily train you on the approproate use of a long hose, if that's what you want to learn ... but we can just as easily accomplish good safety skills in a typical recreational rig ... the methods are just slightly different. Trim and buoyancy control are achievable in pretty much any BCD ... things like weight distribution will differ from model to model and style to style, but the concepts are the same regardless. The key is to balance your weights such that when you stop all motion, you will remain in the position you want to without having to fight your equipment. In order to do so, the equipment must fit properly and be adjusted properly.

We spend the first dive evaluating where you're at ... me watching the student descend, move underwater, hover without any motion, and ascend ... and making corrections based on what I see. Once I've got the student descending without difficulty, holding a good stop off the bottom without having to kick or hand scull to maintain position, managing a passable flutter kick (which is all they usually know how to do), and being able to ascend slowly, we move on to other skills. Everything is done in shallow water ... typically 20 feet for the first dive ... so that we can make several ascents and descents as needed to discuss what I see, work on making real-time adjustments, and practice. The first dive can take up to 90 minutes, and often consists of several "dives" of 10-12 minutes or less. It's building a foundation. At the end of that dive, with your cylinder at a reserve of 500 psi, we'll do a weight check in 8 feet of water. Usually by now we've already made some weighting changes based on what I've seen during the dive, and the weight check only results in minor ... if any ... adjustments.

The curriculum for the second dive is often based on exercises that strengthen the learning objectives of the first ... again it will vary from student to student, with the goal being to have the student comfortably making descents without touching the bottom, moving comfortably and in trim, hovering consistently and with little to no effort, and making an ascent that includes stops when you want, and an ascent rate that's completely under control.

Third and fourth dives will focus on whatever additional skills the student has expressed a desire to learn. We can work on fine-tuning buoyancy skills, navigation skills, SMB deployment, fin kicks, or whatever the student feels is important to their development. Once the foundation is properly established, the possibilities are many.

I do this course, typically, over the course of two days ... two dives per day ... but now that longer days are here, I am going to also be seeing how well it works on a one-dive-per-evening format. The important thing is not to spread the dives out too much ... to allow muscle memory to develop a sense of what it "feels" like when the skill is done properly.

That's as much of a description of how I conduct the workshop as I can provide. I have seen some impressive results so far.

My suggestion would be to recognize the extra training time on your C-card. Regardless of the agency you trained in, everyone loves stickers right? Put a sticker or some other identifying mark that says you attended some extra training with a DM/instructor.
I do not offer cards or stickers for this workshop. Perhaps that might be an incentive for some ... but the thing that most matters to the people I've offered this class to so far is that they leave the class feeling much more confident and comfortable in the water. Since these divers are already certified, they already own the card that matters. In some cases, applicants have asked if they should consider taking an AOW or specialty class ... and I usually tell them that while these classes add value, they should do some diving first and help establish more firmly the skills they've just learned. When they feel ready for an AOW or specialty class, I'll be happy to provide one ... but the purpose of this workshop is to provide them a better foundation to work on gaining some more experience at their current level before progressing on to other classes. In effect, this workshop is to help them gain the confidence to go out and dive on their own for a while between classes ... so they can come to the next class better prepared to learn whatever new skills that class provides.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
I remember trying to drum the beats that OW for ocean diving would require a 5th checkout dive, unless all 4 checkout dives were done in the ocean.

Seems my SB credentials are not on par - my posts got no traction. As per Gabe/Tina story.

Like the province-sponsored FQAS here in Quebec - it's a 10 minute written exam and basically a 5th checkout dive that prevents Darwinism.

I don't recall the opposite - a salt water OW with less than 10 dives having an incident in cold water.
 
What I would love though is something just like Bob describes - a little skills course over a day or two that will help me get better practice out of the shallow, simple, recreational diving I'm currently enjoying. You guys here have really influenced me in thinking that it's just best to take things slow, to dive comfortably and learn gradually. Thanks. It's a wise approach.
Much of what you state already exists in a formal speciality course that PADI and other agencys offer.Just need to find a good instructor.You can even earn a certification card for it.
Bob got me thinking - why don't I hit up a local indie instructor with a wish list of skills and ask them to tailor a little course for my buddy and I and maybe some other people from my university dive club.
What would you be willing to pay for this service?

Teaching different kick styles (flutter, frog, ????)
Teaching buoyancy / trim (what are the most useful skills here?)
Teaching buddy skills.
Safety skills (in the water practice using a safety sausage or even DSMB?).
Maybe some nav stuff?

Buoyancy=peak performance buoyancy
Buddy skills=should have been covered in ow course
safety skill=should of been in ow course,SMB can be in a wreck or drift speciality course or search/recovery course.
Navigation= u/w navigation course..These are all complete speciality course or can be an "adventure dive",either way it is what you describe.If Adventure dive or a complete speciality course it can be credited towards advance once you complete both navigation and deep requirements.

What would you suggest? What do you think are the most important things for a newbie to learn, or what things were the most useful for you to learn when you were starting out after being certified?
peak performance buoyancy and navigation.
Anytime you do this and wish to have a certification/recognition for it dive must be conducted by or under supervision of instructor. If it does not matter that you gain any recognition then it can be almost anyone who is experienced and truly knows what they are doing.That person would be accepting a big responsibility liability wise.. Remember that it is only with an insured current instructor that you get any type of recognition for skill set if using it for continue education.




 
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There will be some real resistance to creating such a course as you describe here from the SB veterans because it has been tried and failed so many times. On the other hand, as has been described, the course as you want it exists in many forms from many agencies in many places. You may have just a course offered right now in a shop near you. I offer one--actually more than one--myself right now.

One thing to do is to make a list of the things you want to learn and call different shops. Tell them what you are looking for and find out what they have to offer.
 
Hi gang!

I have a proposal.

I'm writing to ask if the good folks at scubaboard could please help design a skills course for newly certified students.

. . .


I know this is getting old and I'm absolutely certain that everybody is tired of me saying this, but aside from deploying an SMB at depth, these are all skills that should be taught in OW class, and in fact all or nearly all are are part of the OW curriculum, although they're defined with enough wiggle room to allow the kind of divers that have problems with skills and dive planning.

The only thing that prevents the proposed curriculum from being a universal standard is the subjective evaluation of skills.

For example, demonstrating "buoyancy control" could simply mean "not being a lawn dart or a polaris missile" or it could mean staying within, "x feet of your specified depth".

A "controlled ascent" could mean "being able to hold short stops at specified depths and a 5 minute safety stop with no line" instead of simply "arriving at the surface somehow".

However since the chances of this actually happening are probably about the same as having the USS Enterprise beam me up, the "next best thing" would seem to be some sort of video online class like the Kahn Academy, showing skills demonstrations and maybe some lectures, and a list of local instructors who would be willing to teach the water skills portion of the class.

Better skills are an awesome idea. It's just a shame that it needs to come after OW class instead of being part of it.

flots.
 
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I know this is getting old and I'm absolutely certain that everybody is tired of me saying this, but aside from deploying an SMB at depth, these are all skills that should be taught in OW class, and in fact all or nearly all are are part of the OW curriculum, although they're defined with enough wiggle room to allow the kind of divers that have problems with skills and dive planning.

The only thing that prevents the proposed curriculum from being a universal standard is the subjective evaluation of skills.

For example, demonstrating "buoyancy control" could simply mean "not being a lawn dart or a polaris missile" or it could mean staying within, "x feet of your specified depth".

A "controlled ascent" could mean "being able to hold short stops at specified depths and a 5 minute safety stop with no line" instead of simply "arriving at the surface somehow".

However since the chances of this actually happening are probably about the same as having the USS Enterprise beam me up, the "next best thing" would seem to be some sort of video online class like the Kahn Academy, showing skills demonstrations and maybe some lectures, and a list of local instructors who would be willing to teach the water skills portion of the class.

Better skills are an awesome idea. It's just a shame that it needs to come after OW class instead of being part of it.

flots.

I dunno ... in a sense I agree with you, but learning's an iterative process and the OW class really doesn't allow you time for much iteration. There's a lot of information to process, and varying degrees of retention that rely on the individual abilities of both the student and instructor. And then there's varying degrees of "mastery" for any given skill or skill set.

As someone mentioned earlier, diving isn't really about skills at all ... it's about the integration of skills into a behavior and mindset. I don't think anyone really "masters" buoyancy control straight out of OW ... they just get some tools that will help them learn how to master it. Mastery comes from doing ... and even 50 dives is a bare minimum to really develop what could realistically be considered "mastery". Then you start adding in task loading, variable conditions, and additional equipment such as cameras, lights, dive floats, and other equipment useful to particular conditions, and the process begins anew.

It's not realistic to believe that OW can prepare you for all that ... not even in the conditions that a relatively new OW diver can be exposed to.

The reality is that MOST skills development comes after OW class. It's like music lessons ... they're not going to teach you how to be a musician, they're just going to give you the tools to learn how to become one ... the craft gets developed through continued practicve and application ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Much of what you state already exists in a formal speciality course that PADI and other agencys offer.Just need to find a good instructor.You can even earn a certification card for it.

What would you be willing to pay for this service?


Buoyancy=peak performance buoyancy
Buddy skills=should have been covered in ow course
safety skill=should of been in ow course,SMB can be in a wreck or drift speciality course or search/recovery course.
Navigation= u/w navigation course..These are all complete speciality course or can be an "adventure dive",either way it is what you describe.If Adventure dive or a complete speciality course it can be credited towards advance once you complete both navigation and deep requirements.


peak performance buoyancy and navigation.
Anytime you do this and wish to have a certification/recognition for it dive must be conducted by or under supervision of instructor. If it does not matter that you gain any recognition then it can be almost anyone who is experienced and truly knows what they are doing.That person would be accepting a big responsibility liability wise.. Remember that it is only with an insured current instructor that you get any type of recognition for skill set if using it for continue education.





I see what oly5050 is saying. OW Candidates were exposed to the skills but that's about it.
In response to the question how much I'd pay... For two tanks at the local dive park, for my wife and I, I would pay $150-200. Hopefully closer to the low end.
I don't know if that's cheap but it fits my budget.

Bob's workshops would be helpful to any new diver. I've often thought that ST, my LDS, should have a workshop or something similar. I'm thinking something along the lines of the diver coming with 1-2 skills that they want to work on and while doing this please point out anything else that needs work. Like a golf lesson. I'll swing the club and hit some balls and the pro points out what seems to need the most work. In the end it really does comes down to those four skillsets.

My wife and I have a list of things to work on at the scuba park. Weighting/Bouyancy, Trim, OOA, Hovering, SMB. We don't always get through all of them but we keep a written list of skills that need practice.

FWIW, I don't so much need a special star or stamp on my C Card for the extra credit training. For those that do, I guess it would be like the arrows beneath your Cub Scout/Boy Scout rank...lol
 
For me the biggest thing is learning it all on my own. While there is the club I have worked alot of my skills during my dives to the point I'm usually getting put with some of the newer divers to help keep an eye on them not that it bother me much but I know I still have a ton of work to do and thats where a class like Bob's or something along those lines would help. I would love something that is essentially just to work on skills yes we have been taught them but its more of a yes you can do it not you can not do it sort of test not a yes you can do it and do it proficiently and I think that is where the longing for something like this would come from. But it also comes to the instructor I was lucky with my PPB course as no one else was taking it so I got 1-1 instruction and now my weighting is very close to perfect. I'm still doing minor adjustments now since I got rid of my weight belt due to being one of those it just slides off me kind of people but the system i have works well now.

For me the skills instruction and self improvement are the rewards enough.
 

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