CESA Training

[scubaozy]

Not quite. The topic was not about "practicing CESA." It was about OP's intention to practice CESA from three times the depth that any training agency prescribes for any recreational course.

Lots of commenters divers discouraged this idea. When OP persisted, several of us tried to get him to think more carefully about risk mitigation, noting that his approach neither reduced the likelihood of an OOA situation occurring nor made such a situation a non-emergency.

Choosing a more effective risk mitigation strategy would not in any way "disqualify" him from attempting CESA.

Please don't drag us back to the beginning and re-start 19 more pages of why practicing a 30-meter CESA a dumb idea, especially for a diver like the OP, who by his own account can barely hold his breath for 30 seconds, which means there is no way he could ascend at a safe rate during his "training."

There is already an effective risk mitigation for it, check your spg regularly, stay with your buddy. All equipment can fail, where does your effective risk assessment and mitigation will end? Everyone will dive with twins, twin pony (as pony can also fail), umbilical?

 

[Scraps]

There is already an effective risk mitigation for it, check your spg regularly, stay with your buddy. All equipment can fail, where does your effective risk assessment and mitigation will end? Everyone will dive with twins, twin pony (as pony can also fail), umbilical?

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The risk mitigation discussion was in the context of what the OP can do if he’s still worried about OOA despite paying attention to his spg and staying with his buddy.

I don’t accept your slippery slope argument that any extra form of redundancy necessarily leads to ridiculous levels of it.

For, example, I usually do not carry my pony on recreational dives. However, I do carry it when I’m spearfishing and there’s a good chance distance, distraction, or limited visibility will make my buddy an unreliable source of emergency air. By your book, am I headed down the path to doubles, twin ponies, and an umbilical?

 

[David Novo]

The way I read it, topic is actually about practicing CESA. Redundant supply is a valid risk management option but how much risk is acceptable for given dive condition and profile is highly variable and individual, also cultural. Deploying redundant source is another skill/exercise. No reason to disqualify your self from CESA.

A redudant gas supply may well be your buddy. I am sure that the majority of divers dive with some form of redundancy (or believe that they do).

 

[scubaozy]

I don’t accept your slippery slope argument that any extra form of redundancy necessarily leads to ridiculous levels of it.

I do not think I said it was ridiculous. It is an entirely different and interesting discussion how each individual assess the risk of running out of air in their own diving conditions. How about creating a thread about it?

For, example, I usually do not carry my pony on recreational dives. However, I do carry it when I’m spearfishing and there’s a good chance distance, distraction, or limited visibility will make my buddy an unreliable source of emergency air. By your book, am I headed down the path to doubles, twin ponies, and an umbilical?

Where I come from, spearfishing with scuba is illegal, so, where you would be heading in my book would be downtown and your pony would be confiscated by coastguard. You are addressing the risk of your non compliance to safe diving practices by diving with a pony.

 

[Scraps]

I do not think I said it was ridiculous. It is an entirely different and interesting discussion how each individual assess the risk of running out of air in their own diving conditions. How about creating a thread about it?

Start your own thread if you want one.

Where I come from, spearfishing with scuba is illegal, so, where you would be heading in my book would be downtown and your pony would be confiscated by coastguard. You are addressing the risk of your non compliance to safe diving practices by diving with a pony.

You don’t like where a discussion is headed so you insinuate that your interlocutor is a criminal?

It takes the strength of a full-grown troll to drag such a massive red herring across the trail of that line of thought you’re trying to obscure.

Happily, your “book” is irrelevant here. Spearfishing on scuba is perfectly legal where I live.

 

[BoltSnap]

Spearfishing on scuba is perfectly legal where I live.

Good bless America!!!

The pretense of morality in regards to spearfishing on Scuba in Europe is stifling and disgusting. They couldn't control their commercial fishing industry with its deep political and financial resources so they put their control and anger on the extremely insignificant and powerless spearo community just to show that they are doing something to protect the environment when it doesn't make any difference at all. The real culprits, commercial fishing and industrial pollution are too big and too powerful for them to control, hypocrisy at its best/worst!

 

[Celt]

Good bless America!!!

The pretense of morality in regards to spearfishing on Scuba in Europe is stifling and disgusting. They couldn't control their commercial fishing industry with its deep political and financial resources so they put their control and anger on the extremely insignificant and powerless spearo community just to show that they are doing something to protect the environment when it doesn't make any difference at all. The real culprits, commercial fishing and industrial pollution are too big and too powerful for them to control, hypocrisy at its best/worst!

How true is this. If I shot a bass for my supper I could be brought to court and fined 1000 euro but commercial fishing boats can kill hundreds once they kick them out through the scuppers to the sea birds.

 

[Coztick]

There is already an effective risk mitigation for it, check your spg regularly, stay with your buddy. All equipment can fail, where does your effective risk assessment and mitigation will end? Everyone will dive with twins, twin pony (as pony can also fail), umbilical?

It's the OP's thread.
He asked about CESA practice from 30m with the ability to breath hold for 30 seconds.
The discussion outlined both the dangers of this practice from much shallower as well as mentioning safe ascent speeds would be 4 times longer than he could manage.
If he can't perform a cesa from 30m, he either doesn't go there, has 100% confidence in his buddy or carries a practical supply of redundant gas.
Where will it end??
Hopefully for the OP, it ends when the notion of a CESA being a safe option bellow 10m does and he becomes self reliant.
Who wants to count a CESA as an option with no smb and boat traffic?
For me, risk mitigation is environment dependant. I take 2 cylinders regardless.
Mostly just a 2L for OW, but yeah, easy to justify 2 rebreathers and a spare scooter for some.

 

[Celt]

If the CESA could be perfected, the result would be a bomb proof redundancy for a solo diver in open water once they stayed out of deco. I dived like this for years but today I like redundancy and you can never have to much air. For me there’s just to much to go wrong making any kind of emergency assent. With redundancy there is no emergency.

 

[TMHeimer]

Good bless America!!!

The pretense of morality in regards to spearfishing on Scuba in Europe is stifling and disgusting. They couldn't control their commercial fishing industry with its deep political and financial resources so they put their control and anger on the extremely insignificant and powerless spearo community just to show that they are doing something to protect the environment when it doesn't make any difference at all. The real culprits, commercial fishing and industrial pollution are too big and too powerful for them to control, hypocrisy at its best/worst!

EXACTLY! Like in the Gulf of Mexico where the fishing limit for anglers dropped from 3 to 2 red snapper (I think) and the limit for commercial fishers dropped from 10,000 to 8,000 POUNDS!
Back to the topic.