CDFW Officers Cite Two for Abalone Poaching in Marine Protected Area

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I wish I could say that I agree with y'all, but these guys had 1 abalone each. I fully understand why they are protected, but also understand that they didn't start disappearing along the coast due to divers taking 1 abalone to cook for their family. Commercial harvest did that. To me it's the same as limiting lobster in FL. Monroe county residents can only take 6 lobster a day, but the commercial guy can take an unlimited catch. Total BS.

Same deal with pismo clams. God forbid you pick one of those up on pismo beach....you might decimate the species.
 
On the other hand, many rockfish species have all but disappeared from areas in California where only recreational take was allowed. Boatloads of 15-25 anglers hitting the same spots every weekend can do a lot more damage than a commercial trawl. Ever since I began diving I've heard the same argument that recreational fishermen aren't the problem, yet some of the areas that became MPAs were only fished by private and party boats.
I met a guy who blamed himself for the demise of abalone from Palos Verdes. During the 70s and 80s he used to take limits every day because the restaurants and fish markets paid him $60-80 per pound. He told me he felt bad about it, but couldn't turn down the money.
The ocean is not the endless supply of seafood it was once thought to be. Fish don't magically appear to replace each one taken. The only way to get the reefs back to the way nature intended is to stop human interference for several years. Some species can bounce back quickly, but others, such as lobster take seven years or more to reach sexual maturity. I've confronted several fishermen in the Pt. Vicente MPA in the past year and a half, and they all say the same thing. "Oh, we didn't know!" I take pictures of them and their boats and send them to DFG. I don't know what, if anything has been done after that.
 
Likewise hope they throw the book at them... preferably the CDF&W rules and regulations as I think that woulod really do some damage. Confiscate their cars too since they were used in committing a crime.

I guess I should have been more specific as to whom my comment was directed. By constitutional protection I meant to question whether the "enforcement officers" had jurisdiction to approach the divers. In many of the Marine Sanctuaries only one agency can have jurisdiction to enforce... State or federal. This protects the States rights and removes the ambiguity toward the individual as to which authority they may be held responsible to. Many states look to the Federal tit for funding of many, many State authority objectives and as a result collaterally end up attempting to enforce Federal objective not funded by the feds...now they are beholden to the feds, but don't have legal jurisdiction.

Whether the evidence by which they claim violated the a law was in plain sight or that a search commenced which then produced the evidence or by questioning the divers, they incriminated themselves. Any guy with a gun and a badge just can't walk up to you without probable cause and start asking a bunch of questions in which the answers may incriminate or the refusal to answer may be considered probable cause. They can't start going through your stuff without your permission. There seems to be way too much leeway granted towards the so called wildlife and park service bunch to do this. I suspect that the workforce in most of those types of agencies are made up of "eco terrorists" with a noble mission that is contrary to "normal" law enforcement activities.

You suggest that that they have their property confiscated as a means to punish. I suggest that the "punishment" be appropriate to the offense. In many situations, the WMA bunch is given too much leeway to confiscate property to fund their activities. Some states turn a blind eye to that self-perpetuating constitutional violation and there seems to be no way of stopping it. The fear is that the "noble mission" mentality has a way of creeping.

So the next time you make a "rolling stop", the turbo cop confiscates your vehicle. Same thing, but only different in the since that traffic law is not now "noble". At what point do we protect ourselves from abuse of Constitutional authority? National defense (Security) is now noble, so we take our shoes off at the airport and submit to small amounts of radiation and groping. So the next time you attempt carry on your dive tools, you are detained as a terrorist. We are going to have to build more Guantanamo's in this country to satisfy that noble cause.

It is just a couple of shellfish, slap their hand with a reasonable fine and tell them not to do it again. I have seen more damage done to reef by poor divers by banging tanks and fin slapping. I say cuff them, drag them to the surface, take their gear and leave them in the water to drown because preservation is more important to me than their constitutional protection.
 
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Marine Protected Areas in California are state run. Any sworn law enforcement in California may cite an individual involved in a crime, although most agencies will turn the investigation over to California Department of Fish and Wildlife. We have rampant poaching going on in this state. Abalone poachers sell to restaurants, fish markets and sometimes to overseas markets. We cannot allow officers to look the other way or judges to give slaps on the wrist to violators simply because thay are just a couple of nice guys who only took a small amount. Divers coming out of the water with game bags and/spearguns inside an MPA gives any officer probable cause.
The next time you get pulled over for making a rolling stop, consider the fact that the "turbo cop" is not some power-mad authority, but that you actually broke a law. You may feel that you are above the law and anyone who stops you is breaking your civil rights, but the laws are there for a reason, to protect the public.
 
It's not the taking of a single abalone each that is the primary issue here... it is the taking of them (illegally) in a Marine Protected Area that compounds the crime, making it particularly onerous.

As Phil has stated, our MPAs are mostly state designated (there are some federal ones too though) and local law enforcement can enforce them.
 
Marine Protected Areas in California are state run. Any sworn law enforcement in California may cite an individual involved in a crime, although most agencies will turn the investigation over to California Department of Fish and Wildlife. We have rampant poaching going on in this state. Abalone poachers sell to restaurants, fish markets and sometimes to overseas markets. We cannot allow officers to look the other way or judges to give slaps on the wrist to violators simply because thay are just a couple of nice guys who only took a small amount. Divers coming out of the water with game bags and/spearguns inside an MPA gives any officer probable cause.
The next time you get pulled over for making a rolling stop, consider the fact that the "turbo cop" is not some power-mad authority, but that you actually broke a law. You may feel that you are above the law and anyone who stops you is breaking your civil rights, but the laws are there for a reason, to protect the public.


I don't disagree with the concept of law, we all have to live togther and co-exist with each other and the environment. There has to be a penalty to encourage people to obey the law. My position is how far are you willing to go to exert that authority? Again, the penalty should be proportional to the offense.

I'm done with this, I know where it leads.... I get into the same conflagration with the left inadvertently over gun control. This and that is best left to the legislatures and I vote with my feet and investment account. I'm just glad I'm where I am.
 
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My position is how far are you willing to go to exert that authority? Again, the penalty should be proportional to the offense.

I'm done with this, I know where it leads.... I get into the same conflagration with the left inadvertently over gun control. This and that is best left to the legislatures and I vote with my feet and investment account. I'm just glad I'm where I am.

Considering that when these species are extinct they are gone forever, its a pretty serious offense. I don't think people realize the pressure recreational fishing, hunting and taking have on the species here in densely populated SoCal. The "its only one shell" attitude will decimate these waters. Additionally, this is not a left or right issue, if you want a healthy marine life in these waters you have have serious consequences for violating the law.

---------- Post added May 26th, 2013 at 01:45 PM ----------

The ones who hunted species to near extinction did it legally under the CA fish and game regs. At that point who is at fault?

Just because is not illegal doesn't mean it's right or a good/responsible thing to do. So, the ones who hunted species to near extinction are at fault.
 
I don't disagree with the concept of law, we all have to live togther and co-exist with each other and the environment. There has to be a penalty to encourage people to obey the law. My position is how far are you willing to go to exert that authority? Again, the penalty should be proportional to the offense.

The penalty should be whatever was set forth."If you cant do the time Dont do the crime" Man up ! If you decide to break the law you know the consequences & should be prepared to deal with them ,otherwise dont break them.Dont try to justify or rationalize after the fact. 1 abalone multiplied by countless poachers adds up.The law says "thou shall not kill abalone",doesnt matter if you kill one or more it doesnt say "dont take ,but its ok if you only take 1 or2".
I hunt lobster,fish & Ab dive.And am thankful for the efforts to re-populate.Nothing brings it into perspective more than talking to "Ol' timers" that recount the days of plenty.We may never get back to that but, it would be nice to not be at the brink of extinction for some marine life that our kids might never get a chance to see.
 
I suspect that the workforce in most of those types of agencies are made up of "eco terrorists" with a noble mission that is contrary to "normal" law enforcement activities.

Good to know you're basing what you believe on what you suspect rather than what you know as facts. I worked as a National Park Service ranger assigned to a resource management division for fourteen years. I was never an 'eco terrorist' nor were any of my co-workers. My division worked more than its fair share of poaching cases; we did take our jobs seriously. What's the point of having protected areas and national parks if people are allowed to do as they please and do it whenever they please?

The penalties associated with breaking laws are usually very clearly defined. This is true regardless of whether the law broken is a 'rolling stop' or poaching in a protected area. Penalties associated with poaching typically involve forfeiture of the gear that was used in commission of the crime.

Hope those guys learn something and do not engage in poaching again.

-AZTinman
 
I suspect that the workforce in most of those types of agencies are made up of "eco terrorists" with a noble mission that is contrary to "normal" law enforcement activities.

I "suspect" you have little clue what you are talking about. Do you know anything about the composition of CDF&W staff. Yes, there are biologists there but a lot of them are also hunters and anglers, not "eco terrorists." They are largely under staffed and over worked due to the budget crisis here in the State.
 
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