CDFW Officers Cite Two for Abalone Poaching in Marine Protected Area

[dumpsterDiver]

Marine Protected Areas in California are state run. Any sworn law enforcement in California may cite an individual involved in a crime, although most agencies will turn the investigation over to California Department of Fish and Wildlife. We have rampant poaching going on in this state. Abalone poachers sell to restaurants, fish markets and sometimes to overseas markets. We cannot allow officers to look the other way or judges to give slaps on the wrist to violators simply because thay are just a couple of nice guys who only took a small amount. Divers coming out of the water with game bags and/spearguns inside an MPA gives any officer probable cause.
The next time you get pulled over for making a rolling stop, consider the fact that the "turbo cop" is not some power-mad authority, but that you actually broke a law. You may feel that you are above the law and anyone who stops you is breaking your civil rights, but the laws are there for a reason, to protect the public.[/QUOTE]

And GOD only knows how the public NEEDS to be PROTECTED from "Rolling Stops" that occur at 2:30 a.m. on a desolate intersection..

 

[MaxBottomtime]

I saw a kid get hit by a car making a rolling stop once. The driver kept insisting he made a complete stop before the little boy stepped into the crosswalk, but I saw him "totally pause".

 

[red_instead]

I don't know why the Constitution got dragged into this: these guys were (1) taking a species that is prohibited to be taken (2) in a place where all marine life is protected (3) in a geographical location where, even if the species were permissible to take, they wouldn't be allowed to take it, (4) using SCUBA gear to do it, a prohibited method of take.

Where is the Constitutional concern here? This is pretty far from a "tree hugger" and more about a flagrant flouting of the law.

So now they get a CDFW record, they have their scuba gear impounded, and they get slapped with a nasty fine. None of which is inappropriate.

You can analogize this to a rolling stop all you want, or rationalize it as a "just one abalone to feed his family" thing, but (1) unlike some traffic infractions, fish and game regulations are supposed to be deterrents rather than revenue generators, especially ones charged at the misdemeanor level; and (2) abalone need a certain population size to spawn successfully, so removing individuals in protected areas are pretty important.

And be real: I'd put even odds on these guys being repeat players and having pulled abalone out of southern california waters before. So screw 'em.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

CDFW Officers Cite Two for Abalone Poaching in Marine Protected Area | CDFW News

In the link there are photos of the abalone and the divers' gear. From the looks of it, they were trying to sell the abalone to recoup their losses from the expensive, useless gear they were sold at Sport Chalet.

 

[red_instead]

Tell me more about this useless gear...

Also, looks like they managed to pop the abs without cutting them, so at least that's good

 

[spoolin01]

Whether the evidence by which they claim violated the a law was in plain sight or that a search commenced which then produced the evidence or by questioning the divers, they incriminated themselves. Any guy with a gun and a badge just can't walk up to you without probable cause and start asking a bunch of questions in which the answers may incriminate or the refusal to answer may be considered probable cause. They can't start going through your stuff without your permission. There seems to be way too much leeway granted towards the so called wildlife and park service bunch to do this. I suspect that the workforce in most of those types of agencies are made up of "eco terrorists" with a noble mission that is contrary to "normal" law enforcement activities.

Generally I share your concern about lack of respect for the Bill of Rights, and LE overreach, but this example does not seem egregious. In this state, game wardens ARE the one agency that can just walk up and start asking you questions - and search - w/o probable cause or reasonable suspicion, if there's any evidence that you have been hunting or fishing. That's why F&G are so much in demand for participation in many other LE activities only marginally related to wildlife concerns - they're the 4A trump card. One I know transferred to one of the most isolated assignments in the state, because he tired of being tasked with drug busts, and the other stuff of the modern police state. I've met several wardens here in NorCal, and find them generally regular people, and good LE - concerned with wildlife, but respectful of hunting and fishing traditions.

Some of the south state abalone populations were hunted to the brink of extinction - they are a rare example of marine life where that was probably a real possibility, and deserve the ban on take. Punishment for F&G violations in this state are typically relatively light, I'll be glad to see these guys take a hit in the pocketbook.

 

[Dive California]

...

Also, looks like they managed to pop the abs without cutting them, so at least that's good

Whick goes to "this isn't the 1st time these idiots have done this."

 

[red_instead]

Generally I share your concern about lack of respect for the Bill of Rights, and LE overreach, but this example does not seem egregious. In this state, game wardens ARE the one agency that can just walk up and start asking you questions - and search - w/o probable cause or reasonable suspicion, if there's any evidence that you have been hunting or fishing. That's why F&G are so much in demand for participation in many other LE activities only marginally related to wildlife concerns - they're the 4A trump card. One I know transferred to one of the most isolated assignments in the state, because he tired of being tasked with drug busts, and the other stuff of the modern police state. I've met several wardens here in NorCal, and find them generally regular people, and good LE - concerned with wildlife, but respectful of hunting and fishing traditions.

Some of the south state abalone populations were hunted to the brink of extinction - they are a rare example of marine life where that was probably a real possibility, and deserve the ban on take. Punishment for F&G violations in this state are typically relatively light, I'll be glad to see these guys take a hit in the pocketbook.

Actually, I'm going to point out something: diving with a catch bag in a Marine Protected Area where you're forbidden to take anything probably constitutes probable cause for a search.

Moreover, there's no 4th Amendment concern re merely asking questions.

 

[drbill]

The fact that some feel this is even arguable is rather appalling to me. These "divers" violated so many rules that I still think their vehicles should be confiscated as well.

 

[spoolin01]

Actually, I'm going to point out something: diving with a catch bag in a Marine Protected Area where you're forbidden to take anything probably constitutes probable cause for a search.

I don't disagree, just pointing out they don't need probable cause or reasonable suspicion, anywhere. Bags are only catch bags if you've caught something - they have other uses as well. I can't speak to what constitutes PC, I suspect the bar is quite low, and variable based on your wealth.

Moreover, there's no 4th Amendment concern re merely asking questions.

This I suppose at the very least, is a matter of philosophy. And one can always deflect questions.