CCR for rec diving ?

[Life-Is-Good-Diver]

Thanks for the info, i agree with the water traps, as i dont plan on doing any cave diving with the unit.

Im still researching CCR unit's, and want to make sure i make the right descion, not that buying the Dolphin was a bad one, i consider it a learning experiance.

Anywhere i may be able to try one out before buying in a pool oe somthing?

Also i heard there around $4,700 with the 3 02 sensor's, etc, BC, all that, will the dealers sell it for the same, or will be there a big mark up?

 

[caveseeker7]

Also i heard there around $4,700 with the 3 02 sensor's, etc, BC, all that, will the dealers sell it for the same, or will be there a big mark up?

Both the brochure and price list are on Jetsam's website , as are contact, purchase info and instructor listings. It lists for $4,780 plus shipping and handling. My advise is to call them and inquire about any further questions you have.

I would check with the instructors if you can try a unit and see about training, but purchase it directly from Jetsam.

 

[Life-Is-Good-Diver]

Both the brochure and price list are on Jetsam's website , as are contact, purchase info and instructor listings. It lists for $4,780 plus shipping and handling. My advise is to call them and inquire about any further questions you have.

I would check with the instructors if you can try a unit and see about training, but purchase it directly from Jetsam.

Thanks buddy, im going to call them in the morning,

 

[caveseeker7]

Thanks buddy, im going to call them in the morning,

Kim and Gordon are great.
Stefan

 

[scubanimal]

FLTDiver,
I had a unique opportunity when I did my dolphin training. My instructor and one other student were getting trained on the KISS (1 classic, 1 sport) at the same time. I felt the instructor trainer for the KISS was really good. But, after watching them while I did my dolphin training, I came away thoroughly convinced that I would never go to the KISS system. Many of the reasons have been stated above, but watching the problems they had made me really nervous about the unit. We did four dives together, and twice one of the KISS units had to abort the dive. So 3 units , 12 dives, 2 failures, my very used old dolphin performed fine. My recommendation is to try it and better still get your certification prior to using it. Sorry I don't know anyone on the east coast but if you happen to visit the west coast, Scuba Luv on Catalina Island has units, as well as other types of CCRs. Stefan's experiences, he documented on the rebreatherworld board, sounds like a really wise way to go. Try as many as you can then find the right one for you. Yes, it’s a bit more expensive, but my feeling is these things require discipline so matching the right rig to the diver I think is important.

Good Luck,

 

[Henry]

I've just recently purchased a sport KISS and have about 500 min on it only. I have not dove any other rebreather at all, so I don't have a point of reference with other CCRs.

I didn't know there were differences in "tech" rebreathers and "recreational" rebreathers when I first bought it. I do now and if you are doing mostly recreational dives or moderate tech dives with minimal decos then the sport KISS is a great unit.

In our cold BC water the scrubber is limited to 2.5 hours ( I know this for a fact because I pushed the CO2 wall on a training dive), which is plenty for the dives that we are talking about. Apparently the scrubber will last up to 5 hours in warm water (in which case you might have to consider slightly bigger gas bottles or more bottles to pack with you for your trip).

Diving with air diluent puts me at 180' or shallower, which is plenty for my diving experience and training. Next year I plan to get my normoxic training which will allow me to take the KISS deeper. But I suspect I will have to consider the KISS's limitations that have already been mentioned in previous posts, such as as scrubber limitations on longer deco dives. I also know that the KISS sub sonic valve will stop working at 250'. There are people who have modified the unit to go deeper, but the cost of doing that is easily comparable to simply buying a CCR that will do the job properly.

Having said all this, the KISS I found to be an amazingly simple unit that has everything that you need. There is almost no electronics on it. There is only the O2 displays, if you count that as elctronics. You need to monitor the displays and that's it. There is no alarms, bells or whistles to depend on, hence no computer to fail.

Happy diving.
Henry

 

[Life-Is-Good-Diver]

FLTDiver,
I had a unique opportunity when I did my dolphin training. My instructor and one other student were getting trained on the KISS (1 classic, 1 sport) at the same time. I felt the instructor trainer for the KISS was really good. But, after watching them while I did my dolphin training, I came away thoroughly convinced that I would never go to the KISS system. Many of the reasons have been stated above, but watching the problems they had made me really nervous about the unit. We did four dives together, and twice one of the KISS units had to abort the dive. So 3 units , 12 dives, 2 failures, my very used old dolphin performed fine. My recommendation is to try it and better still get your certification prior to using it. Sorry I don't know anyone on the east coast but if you happen to visit the west coast, Scuba Luv on Catalina Island has units, as well as other types of CCRs. Stefan's experiences, he documented on the rebreatherworld board, sounds like a really wise way to go. Try as many as you can then find the right one for you. Yes, it’s a bit more expensive, but my feeling is these things require discipline so matching the right rig to the diver I think is important.

Good Luck,

Thank you for your experiance's , as im trying to absorb as much information as possible before going to CCR. I can't belive they had to abort so much, could it have been cause they were just learning the unit's? Or was it cause the actuall unit's malfunctioned?

I couldn;t aggree more though, im trying to find a way to try thr unit's out before in a pool , just to see how they fit, go togehter, break a part, and feel under water.

My only problem is, i really don;t want to spend more then 5k on rec gear, or a rec rebreather. If i have to spend more, i will probley just shy away, for the little diving i will do, under 80 dive's a year i now average, and most at the 60' range, it wouldn't be worth it for me to spend more then 5k on a unit. At that point i would probley just go back to OC gear, and just keep it simple, and CCR rebreather's may not just be for me.

thank's for sharing your experiance though, i don;t think bailing out to OC anywhere withen rec limit's is a prob though, if i have trouble i'll just bail out, but if i spend 5k on a unit, and have all sort's of problem's with the unit,. what ever it may be, i'll sure be on the phone sending it back to the manfactour !

 

[Life-Is-Good-Diver]

I've just recently purchased a sport KISS and have about 500 min on it only. I have not dove any other rebreather at all, so I don't have a point of reference with other CCRs.

I didn't know there were differences in "tech" rebreathers and "recreational" rebreathers when I first bought it. I do now and if you are doing mostly recreational dives or moderate tech dives with minimal decos then the sport KISS is a great unit.

In our cold BC water the scrubber is limited to 2.5 hours ( I know this for a fact because I pushed the CO2 wall on a training dive), which is plenty for the dives that we are talking about. Apparently the scrubber will last up to 5 hours in warm water (in which case you might have to consider slightly bigger gas bottles or more bottles to pack with you for your trip).

Diving with air diluent puts me at 180' or shallower, which is plenty for my diving experience and training. Next year I plan to get my normoxic training which will allow me to take the KISS deeper. But I suspect I will have to consider the KISS's limitations that have already been mentioned in previous posts, such as as scrubber limitations on longer deco dives. I also know that the KISS sub sonic valve will stop working at 250'. There are people who have modified the unit to go deeper, but the cost of doing that is easily comparable to simply buying a CCR that will do the job properly.

Having said all this, the KISS I found to be an amazingly simple unit that has everything that you need. There is almost no electronics on it. There is only the O2 displays, if you count that as elctronics. You need to monitor the displays and that's it. There is no alarms, bells or whistles to depend on, hence no computer to fail.

Happy diving.
Henry

Thank you Henry for sharing your experiance as a actuall Kiss diver !!!

That's exactely what im wanting to hear, somthing simple, easy to maintain, easy to dive, and out of the year i'll maybe do 10 dives to 150' , or 50m, but that's it. The other 50 dive's are withn the 60' range, and probley 20 or so at the 100' range, 35m.

As you can see, not any tech diving anymore, and more of relaxing dive's, reef dive's, im into shooting photo's now, but a dam nice UW Digital camera. Any every once in a while i'll be in strong currnet's , on a wreck, and so on, no biggie, did plenty of them.

Most of the year, water temp's in FL are around 70 thorugh the winter, and lower 80's in summer. Im going to love that scrubber duration then!


Having showed my type of diving, would you reccommend the Sport Kiss?


Can you tell me both the Pro's and Con's and your experiance's on the unit?

Im not CCR certifed, so can you give me a break down of putting the unit together, diving it, breaking it down, cleaning it, etc.... i dove a SCR Doplhin,with 3 - 02 sensor's in it now, and " flush " my loop upun accent now, same thing with a CCR system?

Also, sorry for the question's, i love the fact your diving the unit im looking into buying, how often do you have to " ADD " 02 inot the loop would you say? Say at 20m, or 60', would you say every 20 min you just add alittle 02 into the loop to bring up your PPo2?

Thank you very much, would love to pm you and switch phone number's some time , as i have alot of question's as you see !!

 

[padiscubapro]

FLTDiver,
I had a unique opportunity when I did my dolphin training. My instructor and one other student were getting trained on the KISS (1 classic, 1 sport) at the same time. I felt the instructor trainer for the KISS was really good. But, after watching them while I did my dolphin training, I came away thoroughly convinced that I would never go to the KISS system. Many of the reasons have been stated above, but watching the problems they had made me really nervous about the unit. We did four dives together, and twice one of the KISS units had to abort the dive. So 3 units , 12 dives, 2 failures, my very used old dolphin performed fine. My recommendation is to try it and better still get your certification prior to using it. Sorry I don't know anyone on the east coast but if you happen to visit the west coast, Scuba Luv on Catalina Island has units, as well as other types of CCRs. Stefan's experiences, he documented on the rebreatherworld board, sounds like a really wise way to go. Try as many as you can then find the right one for you. Yes, it’s a bit more expensive, but my feeling is these things require discipline so matching the right rig to the diver I think is important.

Good Luck,

You didn't say what type of failure was experienced.. The one "common" failure that I know about was flooding the po2 displays.. This is usually the diver's fault.. The older displays (the current displays are molded) had the possibility of a diver over tightening the screws which hold the clear cover in place.. what follows tight is loose not tighter.. too many people think you have to torque the screws down.. SS wins over plastic everytime.. The screws have to be just snug enough to compress teh oring.. thats it.. The newer displays its much harder to damage it..

There really isn;t much on the sport kiss than can fail enough to abort a dive... other than a divers poor airwayc control allowing water entry into the loop... The sport should handle water entry better than the dolphin, but no where near OTS counter lung designs..

 

[Henry]

Thank you Henry for sharing your experiance as a actuall Kiss diver !!!

That's exactely what im wanting to hear, somthing simple, easy to maintain, easy to dive, and out of the year i'll maybe do 10 dives to 150' , or 50m, but that's it. The other 50 dive's are withn the 60' range, and probley 20 or so at the 100' range, 35m.

As you can see, not any tech diving anymore, and more of relaxing dive's, reef dive's, im into shooting photo's now, but a dam nice UW Digital camera. Any every once in a while i'll be in strong currnet's , on a wreck, and so on, no biggie, did plenty of them.

Most of the year, water temp's in FL are around 70 thorugh the winter, and lower 80's in summer. Im going to love that scrubber duration then!


Having showed my type of diving, would you reccommend the Sport Kiss?


Can you tell me both the Pro's and Con's and your experiance's on the unit?

Im not CCR certifed, so can you give me a break down of putting the unit together, diving it, breaking it down, cleaning it, etc.... i dove a SCR Doplhin,with 3 - 02 sensor's in it now, and " flush " my loop upun accent now, same thing with a CCR system?

Also, sorry for the question's, i love the fact your diving the unit im looking into buying, how often do you have to " ADD " 02 inot the loop would you say? Say at 20m, or 60', would you say every 20 min you just add alittle 02 into the loop to bring up your PPo2?

Thank you very much, would love to pm you and switch phone number's some time , as i have alot of question's as you see !!

If you are dedicated to under water potography, you will find any CCR a huge bonus. I have found that life under water is waaaaay more approachable without LOUD bubbles from an OC system. Most of my dives I am able to touch fish and play with them because they are not scared off by exhaust bubbles.

Pros on the unit: It's really cold where I dive. So the warm moist air keeps me warm and I don't have to use argon for my dry suit; No bubbles; My PST E8 119 twins gives me about 2.5 hours of gas (depending on the dive oof course) weigh about 120 lbs. The KISS gives me about 2.5 hours of gas and weighs only 45lbs; I am always breathing the optimum nitrox for my depth; excellent off gassing in the shallows; easily broken down for repairs, cleaning and transport; easily shipped as luggage; not much on the unit to fail; pre-dive routine is done in 5-10 min instead of 24 hours as recommended by some manufactuers; no fancy alarms or bells to fail.

Cons: depth limitation (as mentioned in previous posts); no fancy alarms or bells to depend on (perhaps you are the type of diver that likes having a computer control your dive and dive alarms); minimal LDS support and ciculation (it simply is not sold everywhere).

Flushing the loop on ascent to get more O2 is what I do as well. I don't know if ALL rebreathers are doen the same way. I am guessing probably.

As far as break down. The new units come with the quick disconnect for all hoses. You simply disconnect everything and rinse. I can wash everything and hang to dry in about 15 min.

The sub sonic valve constantly flows about .7L of O2 per min (this can be adjusted for each diver). So as long as your depth is constant and you are not working and metablizing O2, then you don't need to add O2 in to your loop at all. But if you ascend or are working hard, then you need to add O2 to bring oyur PPO2 in to an appropriate range.

I hope this is helpful. Feel free to PM.

Henry