CCR cave crossovers

[Germie]

Isn't that the equivilent of the post-full-cave course "Stage cave diver"? Requires more experience than a newly minted full cave diver and calculations adjusted for CCR (which at the end of the day can be an open circuit return dive).

In the standards sometimes a depth limit is written. So a ccr cave class is NOT to learn to execute deep dives in a cave. If you go to 100m depth in a cave, you are only doing deco with a very limited bottomtime. Deco in a cave is just deco.
Better is to do longer dives without deco or only with a limited amount of deco. Then you can learn much more. It is not a decocourse. It is a cave course. So you want to do cave skills and not lay and wait till you can surface again. This is divetime, but no divetime that can be used for skills.

I took de standards and this is written:
No dives may be conducted to depths greater than 132 fsw (40 msw).
In most cases, no dives may be conducted to depths greater than 132 fsw (40 msw). ► NOTE: When conditions warrant it, (such as areas without access to caves suitable for training at depths of 132 fsw (40 msw) or shallower) Cave Diver Programs may be conducted to a maximum depth of 150 fsw (45 msw), provided the students are qualified as Advanced Recreational Trimix Diver or Technical Diver. ► NOTE: When appropriate conditions are available (i.e., depths between 132 fsw (40 msw) and 200 fsw (60 msw), the Cave Diver and Normoxic Trimix Diver Program may be taught as a combined course, provided all of the Cave Diver qualifications are completed first and then followed by the Normoxic Trimix Diver qualifications. 7. Provided there are no alternative locations, that allow the cave program to be taught in depths shallower than 132 fsw (40 msw) a. Qualified Normoxic Trimix Divers and Rebreather Normoxic Trimix Divers may be trained in caves at depths between 100 fsw (30 msw) and 200 fsw (60 msw) provided there are no alternative locations, which allow the cave program to be taught in depths shallower than 132 fsw (40 msw). b. Qualified Trimix Divers and Rebreather Trimix Divers may be trained in caves on Trimix at depths between 132 fsw (40 msw) and 300 fsw / 91 msw provided there are no alternative locations, that allow the cave program to be taught in depths shallower than 132 fsw (40 msw).

So only if there are no shallower caves you can go deeper.

But, that is another limit:
Student to Instructor Ratio:
a. There may be no more than three (3) students per Instructor inside the cave
b. There may be no more than two (2) students per Instructor on cave dives conducted to depths greater than 132 fsw (40 msw).

So you cannot take 3 students deeper than 40m in a cave. This means you can combine adv. nitrox divers with full trimix divers in a ccr cave course without any problem. But if you want to go deeper, you cannot take 3 students anymore and not all students can join anymore.

You can do ccr cave if you don't have a cert for going deeper than 40m. If you later do a trimix cert, you can use this cert in combination with the ccr cave cert. So why is another cert needed? If you need that, maybe there is some knowledge missing. Deco with air diluent is not different from deco with trimix diluent. Gasswitches with multiple cylinders are teached in a trimix course. The drop of a decogas is teached in the ccr cave course. And that can be done when staying shallower than 40m.

 

[berndo]

cave rb80 doesn't even exist. though it was basically a cave diving class.
ginnie people expecting to see cave written on my card now is ridiculous considering I did the class in the hillier tunnel...

Maybe they can't grandfather people in because of some insurance issue.

 

[Germie]

There is a pscr cave class:
► For SCR: A pSCR Cave Instructor or higher may teach the course provided they are an diver on the
specific Rebreather being used in the course.

 

[kierentec]

You can do ccr cave if you don't have a cert for going deeper than 40m. If you later do a trimix cert, you can use this cert in combination with the ccr cave cert. So why is another cert needed? If you need that, maybe there is some knowledge missing. Deco with air diluent is not different from deco with trimix diluent. Gasswitches with multiple cylinders are teached in a trimix course. The drop of a decogas is teached in the ccr cave course. And that can be done when staying shallower than 40m.

The NSS-CDS does have a ccr cave trimix course to cover topics that would not be covered in an open water trimix course or CCR cave course. There's actually a lot to be learned. How to manage failures and stressful situations when a minute of bottom time might mean 10+ minutes of deco, how to carry and manage 300+ cuft of bottom bailout and at least 3 deco gasses, how to manage extremely long deco hangs (deep cave diving usually means much longer deco obligations than in open water), how to setup a cave for longer dives, etc. The reality in locations like N. FL is that dives requiring 3+ hours of deco are extremely common, ways of managing that will just not be covered in an open water trimix course.

 

[rddvet]

Is a cave ccr class necessary, no. Is it a good idea, maybe. What I mean by that is it depends on the instructor. There are some well known internet ccr/cave instructors (Kave Kardashians) that run a ccr cave class by teaching a little bit on gas planning and then its friendly dives with just the instructor and student. That is a worthless class. I took ken's class and learned a ton because he actually teaches and doesnt just take you on fun dives. I learned some new info, but also learned some info I already knew in a different way. Either way I was a better ccr cave diver after the class, even with the fact that my mod1 class was taught with the knowledge that almost all of my ccr dives would be in a cave. I was diving caves other than ginnie for months before the class, but still got stuff out of it.
As with any other course, its all about the instructor. Pick someone good like ken or Jon Kieren or the many others. Avoid the Kave Kardashians.

 

[LiteHedded]

There is a pscr cave class:
► For SCR: A pSCR Cave Instructor or higher may teach the course provided they are an diver on the
specific Rebreather being used in the course.

I’m good.

 

[tbone1004]

Is a cave ccr class necessary, no. Is it a good idea, maybe. What I mean by that is it depends on the instructor. There are some well known internet ccr/cave instructors (Kave Kardashians) that run a ccr cave class by teaching a little bit on gas planning and then its friendly dives with just the instructor and student. That is a worthless class. I took ken's class and learned a ton because he actually teaches and doesnt just take you on fun dives. I learned some new info, but also learned some info I already knew in a different way. Either way I was a better ccr cave diver after the class, even with the fact that my mod1 class was taught with the knowledge that almost all of my ccr dives would be in a cave. I was diving caves other than ginnie for months before the class, but still got stuff out of it.
As with any other course, its all about the instructor. Pick someone good like ken or Jon Kieren or the many others. Avoid the Kave Kardashians.

My experience with Ted was similar. It was a very different class because of the background that my buddy and I had. Lots of emphasis on how to get yourself out of a pickle and be able to stay on the loop in anticipation of the big dives that we were working towards. That is not the cave CCR course that I usually observe when in cave country though.....

 

[rddvet]

My experience with Ted was similar. It was a very different class because of the background that my buddy and I had. Lots of emphasis on how to get yourself out of a pickle and be able to stay on the loop in anticipation of the big dives that we were working towards. That is not the cave CCR course that I usually observe when in cave country though.....

Yep. Sounds similar to my class. Ted's another one who falls in my list of good ccr instructors, but I always forget about him

 

[Underwater Tourist]

And what’s Teds full name?

 

[rjack321]

And what’s Teds full name?

Ted (Theodore) McCoy