CCR cave crossovers
- Thread starter berndo
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Depends on the cave profile, there are a few specific caves that get really shallow a long way back. If it's steep up then right back down to where you were you have the option of either decompressing on the mount or hammering the go-fast button and going full tilt boogie up and back down the mound to get back to depth before you get bent. If it doesn't go back down to your ceiling depth then you have to do decompression back there. It's not fun but it's only a few specific caves that have that type of profile, very rare
Yes, it depends on the cave. I have done a dive in a cave where it goes to 75m at 900m from the entrance. This can be done swimming, but it goes to 2m, then it drops suddenly to 75m for 180m. If you do it swimming, you have to return, wait till deco is gone before you cross the 2m. To do the first sump, you need a dpv, to do partly the sump, you can do it with a swim and return after some minutes at 75m depth. So if you do the sump by dpv, you also do the deco far in the cave of course. Saint Georges cave.
In another cave, the first of +/-700m is really shallow, then it goes to 75m, later you can go over 100m depth. Here you can do deco partly swimming. I talk about the Tannerie. Also here a french guy is still exploring, and he uses a dpv because he goes far and deep (I believe he has explored this cave to depth over 275m, and these are solodives, really extreme. But it is interesting to follow).
The goul du Pont reaches 120m depth at 210m from the entrance. So you do deco just waiting at one place, not swimming, no dpv needed. But if you want to go far and deeper, then you need it. There is a French guy, I mentioned already about the TAnnerie, that dives almost every day there because this cave is in his backyard. He uses double ccr and dpv's. But he goes to over 200m quite often. He is still exploring here. Some people believe the Tannerie and the Pont are connected, both entrances are only 50m away from each other. But were the connection is? Normal dives will never see this connection.
To reach the 100m in the Saint Sauveur, you need a dpv, it is about 450m from the entrance, but the cave drops directly to 70-74m. The deco is done at the exit of the cave.
To reach 100m depth in Font Estramar, you also need a dpv, that is also a 1000-1200m from the entrance, but a long time you are at 38m depth.
So it depends of the cave. That means for some people or dives a dpv cave cert and a ccr cave cert and a trimix cert?
Are there stories this bad from other agencies? Where a student dies in class and the instructor/IT is allowed to keep teaching by the agency?
It's not bashing to talk about things that happened. I think people should know about these incidents and what agency takes QC seriously and what agencies don't.
Don't they all calculate with 2 sac rates? One for x minutes after a CO2 hit and one just for swimming out?
25 liters and 30 liters sound way to high for swimming out and too low for a CO2 hit, no?
First, you don't know if there is nothing done with a qc. If you were not there, you don't know the details.
And yes, I know from 2 different agencies about a big accident with dead and hospital and the instructor is still teaching. But again, I wasn't there, I only know it from others. Like you also do. You can judge then, but you don't know the details. I can think it is wrong to let an instrutor teach, but happely I am not the person who has to act as a judge. So I can say I don't agree, but officially I can't. I can write on internet that the instructor was bad, the agency is bad, etc. But again, I don't know all details.
Normally if an accident happens, you have to fill in a report form. If it is really serious, with every agency you are on a non active status then. But then the things have to be examined and the outcome can be that it was not the fault of the instructor. Also if an deadly accident happens, you have to deal with police reports. And that details are never shared with outsiders. Also an agency will not share details with outsiders.
So as an outsider you can have an opinion, you can judge, but you are not the real judge to make a decision.
But back on topic please.
Sacrates are discussed in ccr courses. Also the CO2 hit problems. This is not only done in cave courses, also in open water courses.
And yes, I know from 2 different agencies about a big accident with dead and hospital and the instructor is still teaching. But again, I wasn't there, I only know it from others. Like you also do. You can judge then, but you don't know the details. I can think it is wrong to let an instrutor teach, but happely I am not the person who has to act as a judge. So I can say I don't agree, but officially I can't. I can write on internet that the instructor was bad, the agency is bad, etc. But again, I don't know all details.
Normally if an accident happens, you have to fill in a report form. If it is really serious, with every agency you are on a non active status then. But then the things have to be examined and the outcome can be that it was not the fault of the instructor. Also if an deadly accident happens, you have to deal with police reports. And that details are never shared with outsiders. Also an agency will not share details with outsiders.
So as an outsider you can have an opinion, you can judge, but you are not the real judge to make a decision.
But back on topic please.
Sacrates are discussed in ccr courses. Also the CO2 hit problems. This is not only done in cave courses, also in open water courses.
Bent, again you go offtopic, but ok, I will answer: sometimes it is better not to know everything. But if you had followed internet and discussions on internet from 2013 till now, you would have found some more examples, more than 2 for sure about instructors and accidents.
I think nobody will be happy if a buddy or students dies. And if this happens, you don't have only to deal with a diving agency, that is most times the minor issue, but you also have to deal with a police investigation. And that can be way much more stressfull.
I don't see bad stuff, I know about accidents where people judge dives or instructors and the real judge decided that it was just bad luck and the instructor still teaches. This happens with every agency, but again, you don't know the details, even I don't know. So we cannot judge, we can have an opinion, but our opinion is not the decisionmaker.
Statistics don't show that padi divers have more accidents than ssi divers. And if an instructor teaches for several agencies, which agency is then wrong? So happely we don't have to make a decision.
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