Cave Rescue?

[boulderjohn]

The problem is almost every single rescue has been unique, if you're ever in that situation you're likely going to have to "wing it

When I was diving at Jackson Blue in Florida, I was there for a rescue (not by Edd, BTW) that showed that uniqueness, the skill that might be required, and the problem of teaching it.

Two divers were on rebreathers just below the chimney. For those who don't know, that means they were at about 100 feet, near a narrow crack in the rocks, leading straight up about 70 feet to the cavern area. One diver saw the buddy start to shut off his loop, realized in an instant that there was a problem, and donated immediately. Too late! As he pushed the regulator into his buddy's mouth, he saw that the diver was already unconscious. He took that diver under his arm, keeping the regulator in the mouth while he used his enormous scooter to go up through that narrow crack and out of the cave. The man lived, which I considered a miracle.

I am sure I do not have the skill to do what that diver did, and I would certainly not want to be playing the victim to practice that rescue. I can't imagine what it must be like to go up through that crack dragging a buddy, steering a huge scooter, holding the regulator in the mouth, adjusting the wings for buoyancy, and adjusting the drysuits for buoyancy. (Yes, that rescue earned my respect.)

 

[boulderjohn]

There was an earlier reference to Edd's rescues. He told me about each in great detail at different times. I thought I would describe one part of one of them to give you an idea what a cave rescue might entail.

The diver was in a small, silty tunnel, and it was full silted out. As he searched, Edd saw the glint of a tank. He later learned that at that point, the lost diver saw his face. That as only for a second, because Edd really didn't want the guy to see him. He retreated and then maneuvered in the siltout until he could make contact with the the guy without the guy seeing him approach. He was afraid the guy would panic and grab at him, which could result in both of them dying. By doing what he did, Edd was able to get a hold on him, gain control, and make sure the diver was calm enough for a successful exit.

How real is that fear? I know the details of an unsuccessful rescue, and the panicked victim did indeed nearly kill his potential rescuer, at one point pulling the rescuer's fin off during a struggle.

 

[Germie]

Also, don't forget panic attacks when a diver really gets unconsious and you are the buddy or teammate of that diver. I have seen several times panic in divers, even if they are well trained. For example loosing a stagebottle that was already empty and floats up after not clipping it right. And then want to follow the stage to the surface with 60 minutes deco left.

Or when I was 'just' a recreational diver with 250 dives and my buddy was a dive instructor (also recreational diver) with 1000 dives. We got lost in a wreck due to group pressure (a long story, after that I decided I want to become a cave dive which I did). The group said reels are not needed on this wreck, so we did not take one. Due to bad viz, we found ourselves in the wreck.
First nothing wrong, we started searching for an exit. Then my computer told me beep beep, deco. Nothing to be worried. Then I started calculating that if I won't find an exit, my life is gone in 20 minutes. At that time we swam hand by hand in really zero viz. Then I thought, what if my buddy runs out of air? I learned that it is better to kick him away and safe only my own life. Better 1 alive and 1 dead than 2 dead. But the moment came that he runned out of air. He was breathing really fast. I shared. We found an exit, but knew we could not get back to the anchor line, I did not know where it was. We had current, north sea, and I knew from a diver who had been lost for over 12 hours by not seen by the boat when he surfaced not following the anchorline. So I decided that I had to shoot an smb. Remember I did this all with a diver full of stress on my short octopushose. Because I had not time to attach the spool on the wreck I just decided to drop it and hope that it will be stuck on the wreck, so we don't drift away from the wreck. We climbed up over the line from my smb. The boatcrew knews: an SMB means there is something interesting under it (most times it is used as liftballoon also), so pick it up. They did. I followed my computer for the deco and we went up with also almost no gas left in my cylinder (mono 18 liter tank, buddy dove twin 8.5 liter). After the dive we talked about what happened. The crew would never say again don't take a reel. But my buddy was during his stress only thinking: I have 1000 dives, 4 times more than Germie, I am instructor, why did I not take a reel? So he could not think anymore to solve the problem under water. And you should assume he is trained to help less experienced people.

I have done 1 time successfull cpr (not diving related), the only person that was on site that could help me did not know anymore how a cellphone works due to stress. Yes, it was her husband (and my dad, I was having dinner with them) that was not breathing anymore, but I had to tell her what to do.
Call 112/911, tell address, tell what happened, DON'T hang up (as she did), open the door of the house.
Then we have a voluntary trained for cpr app and from the 112/911 they sent an alert to people who are witin a few kilometres. A few minutes later the house was full of people who wanted to help. The police came, ambulance came. Then the person was already breathing again happely. I sent my mum with my dad as victum in the ambulance to hospital, I would follow later with my own car to pick her up, etc. The next day, my mum did not remember anymore where the ambulance stood. Stress can make you loosing your memory, not able to do normal things like using a cellphone anymore. And this are things you CANNOT TRAIN. Also my mum WAS CPR trained, but not able to do it that time.

So yes, an unconsious diver moving in a cave is part of a cave course and we practise that in a course. But I don't know if it really happens if people are able to perform this skill. They are trained, but not everybody that has been trained to perform cpr can do it when it is needed, so do you believe cavedivers can do it?
Of course, if 50% can perform it when needed, it makes cave diving safer. For sure. But the difficult thing of this is that EVERY diver can PANIC, EVERY diver can REACT DIFFERENT in STRESS situations. As long as you have that in mind (and of course also for the normal rescue course this is the thing), it will help at least something, but not everybody is suitable to do search and recoveries.

Also important if you are asked to do a search and recovery: are you able to say no? Not everybody can say no, and this makes it more dangerous then. A no is not a failing, it is to make thing safer.

 

[ginti]

Andrew Georgitsis successfully brought a toxing diver up from a technical dive. IIRC it was a Tech 2 course. The victim was an instructor and dive shop owner who didn't analyze his gas. The victim survived uninjured.

Correct; one of my instructors was also in that dive and confirmed that story.

Another anecdote is about a diver who blacked out in Mexico well within the cave; instructor Chris Le Maillot (IIRC) brought the diver out. This is a story my cave1 instructor told me as an example of an actual unconscious diver rescue, and he also highlighted how the process was VERY long: this is one of the reasons why being fit is so crucial in this type of diving.

Anyway, as others already said, these are just anecdotes....

 

[NothingClever]

How real is that fear? I know the details of an unsuccessful rescue, and the panicked victim did indeed nearly kill his potential rescuer, at one point pulling the rescuer's fin off during a struggle.

 

[Norwegian Cave Diver]

Not about cave diving, but:



I am in a group of voluntary divers that work together with dogs for search and recovery. That means we go diving to search for missing people. And yes, sometimes you find a body. Or just cloths, or a car of the missing person without person.
This is absolutely not for everybody. You need to be able to dive in completely dark and murky water where you don't see anything. So you dive mostly solo. You need to get trained to feel. If new divers want to join, they have to do a checkdive and there is talked with them. And yes, no, you are not suitable is also said. You always must know, what if I find a body, can I accept that? Oh yes, my heart is also pumping more when I feel something that can be a body. But then you must think, ok, if it is a human being, I do it for the family, so they can finish their search for the missing person.

So if you want to do a rescue or recovery in a cave, the first thing must be: can I do solodives in a cave? Then, am I capable to do these solodives in difficult circumstances and under stress?
I know experienced cave divers that are not suitable to do a recovery. Some things are the same with recoveries as with being a safety diver: you must have a lot of experience on the dives you do and you must be comfortable to do that dives solo. And know your own limits. And a no is also a right answer if people ask you to do things.

Great info for me. Thanks. Friends/People ask me what does it take to be a cave diver. I say three things... Great equipment and thats just money, Great Instructors, and the right mindset. Most of the cave diving I do is solo. Again Family/Friends are concerned with that kind of thinking, but is say I am either bringing someone who is an asset or a liability. Don't misunderstand that as me being cocky or arrogant. I would like to sit with someone who has this kind of experience and ask questions and listen and learn how they think. I have a buddy who is an EMT. I asked him how do you do that kind of work and be able to shut it off when you go home? His reply was we are taught that it isn't our emergency it's someone else's. Might seem like a cold answer but at the same time I understand the need for that kind of thinking.

 

[ginti]

Might seem like a cold answer but at the same time I understand the need for that kind of thinking.

I am a former ambulance rescuer. In reality, in the beginning, you think about what you see. But then you build resilience, you understand that you do just what you can, and things become incredibly light.

But that doesn't mean that you lose humanity. I still have very clear some of the events I faced; some were just weird, and some were horrible. The most shocking things usually aren't the most dangerous or bloody. Instead, they are the ones that involve desperate people. But again, you learn how to tackle them; this is called psychological resilience, if I remember well (it might have a different name, double check it).

In a way, it is related to some aspects of cave diving, meaning that if you face a challenging situation (for instance, a buddy who died), you need to find the psychological strength to react, which is still psychological resilience in a way. But I wouldn't say that the best way to develop resilience for cave diving is to be an emergency doctor, rescuer, soldier or anything else because the underlying factors are different. The best way to become a cave diver is by diving first and cave diving later. And, by the way, in most cases (not all), resilience can be built, but for some people, it can take a very long time.