Cave diver drowns - Jackson Blue Springs, Florida

[Aftonsplash]

Sorry, I didn't mean to try and shut down discussion. I completely understand the desire to try to figure out what aspects of this dive caused a death, so as to help prevent future ones: its a laudable goal!
Theres a huge difference though between saying, and example here (cuz I really don't wanna single anyone out, thats not why I commented), "this person died because they were overconfident in their experience," and basically calling them "a dumbass."
And its a valid point that we probably shoudn't come in here. Just, you know, wanted to make y'all aware. Hope you all have a lovely day. Sincerely, Aftonsplash

 

[reddeaddiver]

Sorry, I didn't mean to try and shut down discussion. I completely understand the desire to try to figure out what aspects of this dive caused a death, so as to help prevent future ones: its a laudable goal!
Theres a huge difference though between saying, and example here (cuz I really don't wanna single anyone out, thats not why I commented), "this person died because they were overconfident in their experience," and basically calling them "a dumbass."
And its a valid point that we probably shoudn't come in here. Just, you know, wanted to make y'all aware. Hope you all have a lovely day. Sincerely, Aftonsplash

I completely agree and posted something along these lines earlier explaining that the internet is a big place and family/friends of the deceased will find their way here at some point whether that be intentional or not. The case is still considered open by the local sheriff and final reports haven't been released yet, so ANY comments in this thread are speculative. NONE of us were there and it doesn't matter what so-and-so told so-and-so until the final reports are released we should hold off on our commentary.

 

[chillyinCanada]

There is a reason family and friends are warned to stay out of A&I threads.

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

That is true BUT so do the Special Rules remind the members to be sensitive to that possibility.

All members who wish to post in an A&I thread, should read the Special Rules AND all of the pinned posts.

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[1Cave Ghost]

Separating the person from the incident is something that I think is important because it helps to remove the emotions from the situation. I think it's important to do this earlier rather than later because someone could be reading this thread today or tomorrow and it could cause them to rethink a dive plan, especially one that involves going into a small restriction. I would want people to post all of those details as soon as possible to help prevent someone else from dying but the point is not "he went beyond his level of experience" with him being the individual, it's where did we as a community fail to cause this incident and what can we do to prevent it from happening to someone else.

I wish the NSS/CDS felt the same way. They talk about the importance of accident analysis, but they never post details when there is an incident. There have been a few incidents in the past year and not a word from NSS/CDS.
Scuba board is where I go to learn details. Even cave diver community forums like the CDF are silent, no chatter at all. Its like a dirty little secret.
I hope by knowing a few details, I don't make the same mistakes.

 

[John the Pom]

Hi, I got an acct here just to respond. I used to know Ben well a long time ago: he was a very kind person. When I learned of his passing, I went googling his name for his obit and more info on his death, and page 6 of this thread came up as one of the first few finds. I know people in this thread didn't necessarily intend to be disrespectful, but the flippancy of one or two of the comments broke my heart a little. I'm probably breaking this forum's posting rules or whatever, but I want to ask that you guys please stop to consider your words when discussing deaths on here... I don't know who all else that knew him might stumble in here and read stuff too. I haven't spoken to Ben in a long time, but I have no doubt people being a little kinder in their words towards each other is exactly what he'd want.

I doubt there's anyone here who doesn't feel a sense of horror at what happened to this poor guy, and I imagine everyone feels the deepest sympathy for him, for the awful decision his buddy faced, and for his friends and family. An accident like this hits home to anyone who has done a bit of diving - that's why people get passionate about it and get in each other's faces sometimes. I suspect that putting on a cynical face, affecting a morbid sense of humour, or getting in a forum fight is just as much a coping mechanism as expressing those feeling directly.

 

[grantctobin]

I wish the NSS/CDS felt the same way. They talk about the importance of accident analysis, but they never post details when there is an incident. There have been a few incidents in the past year and not a word from NSS/CDS.
Scuba board is where I go to learn details. Even cave diver community forums like the CDF are silent, no chatter at all. Its like a dirty little secret.
I hope by knowing a few details, I don't make the same mistakes.

?!

Accident Analysis - NSS CDS

nsscds.org

 

[The Chairman]

?!

Accident Analysis - NSS CDS

nsscds.org

I see his statement as true. If you ask, you are told you don't have the right to details about an event. I was kicked out of the NSS/CDS forum for asking about an incident in Eagle's Nest and I had just been instrumental in creating it for them. They are only worried about bad press for Cave Diving. Nothing more. Quite disappointing.

 

[chillyinCanada]

I see his statement as true. If you ask, you are told you don't have the right to details about an event. I was kicked out of the NSS/CDS forum for asking about an incident in Eagle's Nest and I had just been instrumental in creating it for them. They are only worried about bad press for Cave Diving. Nothing more. Quite disappointing.

Then they're doing a bang up job.

 

[Manatee Diver]

IMHO if the CDF wants to increase confidence in their ability to do accident analysis, they need act more like the NTSB.

A few weeks after the incident post a purely factual accounting from the recovery, equipment, gas left, analysis of the gas, etc. Similar to the old IUCRR recovery reports. And then a year or so later once they complete their analysis they can issue their opinion.

This would cut down speculation and wrong information being released. And it holds the CDF accountable that they aren't going to ignore a death, a to do list almost.

I am trying ti think about the recent deaths we have outstanding. Andrew's death at Ginnie, the Midwestern diver that passed at Cow, the OW divers at Buford, this one, and possibly others I've forgotten.

 

[boulderjohn]

As someone who used to write reports on cave diving fatalities for the NSS, I understand some of the problems involved.

• Some people do not want to talk with you about what happened. That could be for a variety of reasons, including a fear of not looking so good.
• Some people will provide inaccurate information for a variety of reasons, including how it will reflect on others. They don't want you to write something that may make someone they like look bad, and (amazingly enough), they don't want you to write something that may bring credit to someone they don't like.
• There is a genuine fear that even your truthful relating of facts can lead to a lawsuit by someone who says your facts imply misplaced fault.

I once did in-depth interviews related to a near fatality, and I got two very different accounts about one aspect of it from the people involved. The critical one (the survivor) told me that if I even mentioned the other person's version, he would refuse to authorize the use of anything he had told me, which was 100% of the information on how things originally went bad. I was (and am) absolutely certain the other person was telling the truth, but eventually it was decided that account could not be included.