Cave diver dies in South-East (Australia)

[Tortuga68]

Thanks Jeni - can I ask what you're basing your understanding on?

 

[SoccerJeni]

It's short as previously mentioned:

"Hi All,

I was one of the divers who assisted with the recovery of Agnes from Tank Cave. We have discussed what we should say and have written the following. This is a very sad time for us all as you can imagine.

Ken

On Sunday 27th Feb, Ag was exploring in Tank Cave, using sidemounted steel tanks. She tied off to the existing cave line and reeled out.

Ag unclipped one tank to pass through a series of restrictions. At some point she made the decision to leave this tank to make further progress. Ag continued to explore before turning to come home. Coming back in silty conditions, she was unable to navigate a restriction. She ran out of air before she could return to her tank.

Her body was brought to the surface by cave divers on Wednesday 2nd March, co-ordinated and supported by the South Australian Police and with help from the State Emergency Service (who are volunteers). A full investigation is being undertaken by the Coroner.

Ag was an inspirational diver who accomplished many impressive feats in a short space of time. She will be sorely missed by her Mum, Dad and many friends and buddie"

-as posted by Ken Smith on CDF

I guess I read the bolded portion to be literally turning around...?

 

[BgDadddy]

Thanks Jeni - can I ask what you're basing your understanding on?

How about... "Turned to come home" or perhaps "Heading back out"

 

[BgDadddy]

Jeni, please don't feed the trolls...

 

[Tortuga68]

I guess I read the bolded portion to be literally turning around...?

You may well be right, I don't know in this case... but 'turning a dive' doesn't necessarily mean physically turning around - it can just mean beginning the return to the surface/entry. As has been mentioned previously in this thread, in cave diving, sometimes that means backing up, at least for a certain distance. In this case Agnes may have passed through a restriction and entered a space that enabled her to physically turn around before trying to return to her staged tank - but I don't think that's something you can assume just from the information that's been posted so far in this thread, despite what some people might think

So, I'm JUST ASKING if anyone actually knows whether she was facing in or out where she was found - so far I don't think anyone has answered that question

 

[BgDadddy]

You may well be right, I don't know in this case... but 'turning a dive' doesn't necessarily mean physically turning around - it can just mean beginning the return to the surface/entry. As has been mentioned previously in this thread, in cave diving, sometimes that means backing up, at least for a certain distance. In this case Agnes may have passed through a restriction and entered a space that enabled her to physically turn around before trying to return to her staged tank - but I don't think that's something you can assume just from the information that's been posted so far in this thread, despite what some people might think

So, I'm JUST ASKING if anyone actually knows whether she was facing in or out where she was found - so far I don't think anyone has answered that question

I'll take a deep breath, try to be nice and attempt this one more time...

In cave diving (which obviously you've never done) when you turn a dive, you physically turn around and head back the way you went in. You can't simply face the way you were originally heading and ascend. Doing so would give you a severe headache when your head impacts the rock above you - this would be the ceiling in the cave.

Sometimes passageways become small enough that a diver might get stuck and need to back out. Once they back out of that small passageway, they turn around and start swimming the rest of the way out head first. It is much more efficient, not to mention comfortable, to swim forward (head first) as opposed to swimming backwards.

The report said that she was heading out, trying to negotiate a restriction in heavy silt and ran out of gas before she could do so. If she were trying to do that backward, it would be a significant enough event that I'm quite certain the recovery crew would have made mention of it. In addition, if she were trying to negotiate the restriction backward, there would be no reason to mention the silt, because she wouldn't have been able to see where she was going regardless. Finally, if she was facing into the cave, the recovery crew would not have known that she was heading back to her tank, so they wouldn't have said she turned around.

Thus, one with even average intelligence could surmise that Ag removed a tank to go through a very small portion of the cave. At some point, she had enough room to turn around and head back out the way she came. The passageway was silted out from her ingress, which significantly slowed down her egress, because she had to feel her way through the restrictions. This took enough time that she didn't have enough gas to make back to her other tank.

R.I.P. Ag. :depressed:

 

[ianr33]

Folks, please stop feeding him.

And if y'all could stop quoting him that would be great. (Kind of makes the "ignore" thing pointless )

 

[Dive-aholic]

If there is one lesson to be learned here, it is -- if you are going to live to the edge, then live each day as if it were to be your last.

With all her experience and successes, Agnes Milowka took calculated risk at a level that she must have felt to be worthwhile. Only those at that level of expertise can make such a decision for themselves.

The discussion on CDF is turning quite interesting. It may be more of her lack of experience that led to a bad decision.

Maybe you can learn and use it since you are part gopher too. I learned I wil NEVER EVER turn my primary bottles into stage bottles. You know me, and like you I also think diving 1/3rds is not conservative enough in most places so there is no way im gonna be in that position.

Not me. I wouldn't turn a primary into a stage. I'd come back with the right equipment for the passage, meaning a proper no mount bottle.

The only thing to learn here is she didnt have enough gas to get back. If it takes 30 minutes to get from point A to point B but then takes an hour to get back your gas planning is probably in bad shape because you thought 30 minutes. You are into your saftey supply by then and thats not good. The tricky part is the people who do these dives dont know how bad it will be to get back out. Thats why I wont take those risks. Too many ifs we cant account for.

Sometimes it takes a lot longer than twice the penetration time.

 

[Garth]

To be completely honest, i've been following this on CDF. But this argument between a few people is ridiculous. The report said that Ag continued to explore before turning to come home. Coming back in silty conditions, she was unable to navigate a restriction. She ran out of air before she could return to her tank.

It does not say she was facing towards the exit yet it does make reference that she was exiting the cave. I could see how there is assumptions here. How could they say she has turned the dive if she wasn't facing the exit? They could assume she was backing out but not really know.
My assumption would be that she was facing outward as it is the only logical explaination for the certainty by Ken's post that she was exiting.

If I was an investigator I would sound more like Tortuga68.
But with all due respect if I sounded like BgDaddy I couldn't make assumptions from one post on a thread on the internet.

I think that this accident can show us to follow the standards and accept the risks.

 

[Squirrel Girl]

The discussion on CDF is turning quite interesting. It may be more of her lack of experience that led to a bad decision.

I don't understand how you could say "lack of experience." Back when she was in FL she was digging her way through 5 no-mount restrictions in Baptizing. She'd moved to FL to dive all the time and I understand that she was diving nearly every day. Didn't she have the 500 cave dive award?

On Facebook, she was posting going diving probably every other weekend. She was a stunt diver for Sanctum. She was exploring cave in Australia quite a bit after returning from FL.

If anything, I'd say complacency resulted in the tragic end, not lack of experience.