Cave/cavern safety question:

[DivingCRNA]

Not sure if you're taking the cavern course in singles or doubles, but I was told that there hasn't been a single reported fatality since 1968 (I think that's when NACD was founded) of a trained cavern or intro diver using a single tank. :thumbs_up:

Maybe someone can elaborate on that stat a bit more?

Single tank.

Doubles will probably come with tech classes, that will come after I do DM, after I finish rescue in the spring. I want to do DM to help my instructor teach.

Cave and tech stuff will probably progress together.

 

[docmartin]

Sheck died while trying to set a depth record. True it was in a "cave" but it had absolutely nothing to do with a rock ceiling.

Mark Vlahos

i know. however, that fine point may be lost on many a scared wife. just not a great conversation: husband: "so you read the blueprint for survival." wife: "yes, I did and I feel so much better about your cave diving plans. This Sheck guy really makes some sensible points. what is he up to these days anyway?" husband: " well, actually he is dead." wife: "oh, the poor guy. did he get sick?" husband: "no, he died while diving in a cave. however, it wasn't really a cave dive in the strict sense of the term. they were trying to set a record. it had nothing to do with him diving in a cave..." wife: "so if he had stayed home he would have died, too?" husband: "not exactly -although eventually he would have."... ( i am having way too much fun with this. you can tell i have had conversations along these lines.)

 

[DivingCRNA]

Sheck died while trying to set a depth record. True it was in a "cave" but it had absolutely nothing to do with a rock ceiling.

Mark Vlahos

He was even violating some of the rules laid out in his own book on cave diving, from what I hear. Especially the depth rules. Truely, I think he died due to the depth. Which could have happened in open water.

The book mentions a couple time that a fair number of folks have died on their deepest planned dive to date.

 

[ianr33]

Sheck died while trying to set a depth record. True it was in a "cave" but it had absolutely nothing to do with a rock ceiling.

Mark Vlahos

Actually I dont think it was a cave. Zacaton is a sinkhole with direct access to the surface ?? Of course the depth is kind of off the scale of sanity.

Sheck has a lot to answer for! .My wife met him at a cavers party some years ago.When I announced I wanted to go Cave Diving I had a hard time explaining that I had no intention or trying to emulate his achievements.

 

[Jeff Toorish]

I completed cavern and intro to cave a couple of months ago.

After I finished the class, my wife read some posts and told me she enjoyed reading about cave diving, but she wished it wasn't me in the cave. She is certified, although she has not dived in years. I have spent a lot of time explaining the safety procedures and caution we take in caves.

Honestly, it didn't make much difference. I think she has a vision of caves being small, clausterphobic and very dangerous.

The best I've been able to do is get her to agree that she knows I am safe and cautious. That's probably the best you are going to get.

Incidentally, those statistics about it being safer to cave dive than, say, drive to the dive site are not actually valid. The stats would only apply if everyone driving at that time and place were headed to the dive site or if you only included people driving to the dive site.

It is, however, very safe to say that a properly trained cavern or cave diver is very unlikely to suffer a mishap if he or she follows their training. It is also probably reasonable to say that cavern training will make you a better and safer diver overall, thereby reducing your chance of an accident or incident in all your diving.

Good luck.

Jeff

 

[ArcticDiver]

I am taking the Cavern class this weekend. How does one safely deal with the subject with one's spouse when said spouse is ademently opposed to cave diving.

BTW-Said spouse is willing to dive the Devil's Throat in Cozumel (parts are more than 130 feet to the surface if you consider making your exit from the cavern) and penetrated the ship in Cozumel and was not bothered by the overhead environment without using cavern or cave procedures.

I live in Mo. It is hard to not be interested in caves and caverns.

Thanks in advance for the advice.

It has nothing to do with rationality, or fairness, or anything else but:
Love, Honor and Negotiate.

Love your spouse as you promised to do.
Honor your spouse as you promised to do and as every spouse deserves.
Negotiate all items of disagreement. As long as they are disagreed then you don't hurt your spouse by taking, by the spouses definition, unacceptable risks.

None of this has anything to do with the spouse's reasons for doing as they do. None of that is important. The only thing that is important is that your spouse has said: "NO". We each have veto power over our spouse's activities, as it should be.

Do you want a long, harmonious and fruitful marriage; or to participate in the recreational fad of the moment?

 

[Dive-aholic]

Actually I dont think it was a cave. Zacaton is a sinkhole with direct access to the surface ?? Of course the depth is kind of off the scale of sanity.

It is a sink hole. Sheck was trying to reach 1000'. According to his depth gauge he made it to somewhere in the 930s. He wrapped the line around his body (or the line wrapped itself around his body) and his body ascended to the surface on it's own the next day as the support crew was pulling the stage bottles. I'm sure that was Sheck making sure his crew wouldn't risk their lives on a recovery. I believe there's a point in the sink hole where you can get under a rock ceiling, but it's sloped enough that getting pinned to it wasn't too likely.

 

[Midnight Star]

It is a sink hole. Sheck was trying to reach 1000'. According to his depth gauge he made it to somewhere in the 930s. He wrapped the line around his body (or the line wrapped itself around his body) and his body ascended to the surface on it's own the next day as the support crew was pulling the stage bottles. I'm sure that was Sheck making sure his crew wouldn't risk their lives on a recovery. I believe there's a point in the sink hole where you can get under a rock ceiling, but it's sloped enough that getting pinned to it wasn't too likely.

What exactly happened to him, on that dive, that took his life?

 

[ianr33]

What exactly happened to him, on that dive, that took his life?

http://www.iucrr.org/aa_misc.htm

4th incident down

"Conclusion

The most likely sequence of events was that Exley got behind on his gas management, ran low on bottom gas, and could not control his buoyancy so could not ascend. The cause is not clear, but a combination of factors could include stress of HPNS exacerbated by the narcotic effects of nitrogen and CO2. He stabilized his position by wrapping his descent line around his arms, was forced to switch to his trimix 10.5/50 at a depth of at least 800 f/246 m, and was subsequently incapacitated by the prevailing conditions of HPNS, hyperoxia, exertion, CO2 buildup, and nitrogen narcosis."

 

[Midnight Star]

Thanks ianr

After reading that, would it be safer, when attempting such deep dives, as to have a full-face mask (to prevent the reg from dropping from the mouth of an unconscious victim), which won't help if vomiting occurs, and a "direct" comm line back to surface, where the dive can be closely monitored ... allowing more immediate control over the situation. Granted the depth is extreme, and would make rescue, from the surface in a sufficient time, impossible, but with more clear "thinking" and "unimpaired reasoning" topside, perhaps he might not have pushed the limits too far on that given day.