Casino Point - Avalon, Diver Death 9/5/11

[blue steal]

Thanks Dr. Bill for the detailed information.
Thanks also to keithbt.
Indeed a sad weekend.
A few of us are heading over to the park this Sunday.

 

[DandyDon]

As smogman stated: "I was going off what I heard from the people on the point," so with his good intentions of trying to provide info - I think his was just too far removed via word of mouth to maintain accuracy.

I'm wondering if her buddy made an attempt to share air and why she came up?

Adam

I've been reading along here and from the confused reports posted, DrBill's being most informative - it sounds like the deceased diver was heavily weighted, out of air, could not ascend, neither could ditch weights, and apparently didn't think to abandon kit. How the young man got her up I don't know.

 

[babygirlbowtie]

Both ladies were very new to diving, they had just finished classes together and this was the first dive without there group. I've gone over this in my head several times.. why didn't they do this or that.. being so new to the sport and in this situation I can only speculate that panic set in and blurred the thinking.. I've always wanted to dive, I only snorkle now.. I don't intend to let this incident deter me, but it does make me even more aware of the dangers and just how very careful I will have to be.

 

[Hatul]

Both ladies were very new to diving, they had just finished classes together and this was the first dive without there group. I've gone over this in my head several times.. why didn't they do this or that.. being so new to the sport and in this situation I can only speculate that panic set in and blurred the thinking.. I've always wanted to dive, I only snorkle now.. I don't intend to let this incident deter me, but it does make me even more aware of the dangers and just how very careful I will have to be.

Panic is probably the explanation, either that or the buddy was running out of air as well. 90-100 feet is a very deep dive for two new divers.

Adam

 

[keithbt]

How the young man got her up I don't know.

As Dr.Bill said amazing for a young man to do what he did!!!! He couldn't have been more than 120lbs. Must have thought with his head and stayed calm. Rescue Diver Course paid off. I think its time to sign me up.

 

[Leejnd]

Dr. Bill and keithbt, thank you for the info. For those of us who love the dive park, it's heartbreaking to hear that something like this happened at our beloved park.

While the dive park can be an excellent spot for beginners, it is not ideal - it can get very deep there, and kelp diving is always challenging if you are not used to it or have not received training in it.

I have never felt that the training in OW certification is enough for newly-certified divers to go diving on their own. Neither my husband nor I felt safe going out on our own right after cert - we actually made a point of ONLY diving with other experienced divers, or with our instructors, until we had a few more "fun" dives under our belt. It was only after quite a few dives with experienced divers that we finally branched out on our own - and even then our first few dives were on a dive boat where we had the benefit of the onboard DM to give us good briefings of the dive sites and answer any questions we had.

I realize this runs counter to what PADI et al say about their OW courses - that completing one means you are now a certified diver and can dive without supervision. I simply disagree. I was on the Raptor yesterday with some students, and the third dive was their first post-cert dive, so they did it without their instructor. They were a mess, and damn near killed ME! We were doing our safety stops on the anchor line due to the strong current, as they were ascending up the anchor line themselves, barreling into us completely mindless of the fact that...um...we were there. One of them damn near ripped my reg out of my mouth as they kicked and flailed. We had to leave the anchor line and do our stop blue-water, which of course meant the current took us pretty far from the boat and we had a heck of a surface swim back.

This is not a criticism of the deceased and her buddy. I'm sure they were told that, now certified, they can go dive. But if they really were at 100fsw, what were they doing there? That's way too deep for newly OW certified divers.

 

[troth]

My wife and I were at the point (with our 6yr old son) when this tragedy occurred. We were planning back-to-back guided dives so one of us could stay on-shore with our son. I was getting ready to enter the water when the screaming started. At first it sounded like kids making noise; some time elapsed before "help" became discernible. At that time everyone on-shores focus shifted to the water. All we could see was a diver in the water, near a boat, outside the dive park shouting for help. As soon as "help" was heard, 911 was called, and it was yelled back to the boat / diver that 911 was responding.

At this point the fact that another diver was involved was not known to those on-shore, we thought the surfaced diver was the injured party. A minute or so later we heard that a "diver was stuck in the water", our guide from Scuba Luv, along with some other divers (including some snorkelers) began heading out to the site. At this point pleas of "we need a diver" were heard from the boat. Precious minutes were wasted due to poor communication.

My wife took our son to the restroom, while she was gone I saw a limp suited diver being dragged onto the lifeguard boat (I didn't see any equipment on the diver other than a wetsuit as she was hoisted aboard). Almost immediately someone on-boards began CPR. The CPR continued as my wife came back from the restroom. After the rescue boat left, the dive park was re-opened, but we decided to scrub our dives, and headed back to the shop.

 

[mselenaous]

BTW... If anyone knows who the younger diver is that tried to rescue her.. family and friends want to say thank you... thank you so much for your efforts, we are very grateful you were there and able to retrieve her from the water.

Im her daughters bestfriend I have known them for over half my life...Her daughter would like to thank all of you for the info, well wishes, and support. She is going to be missed very much!!!!

my name is Jade howard i am the child of the women who died 9/5/11 i would like to thank you all for the information, and your kind words. I would like to thank the young man who tried to save her, and her memorie will live on, in the eyes of her only grandchild delhia who turned 8 weeks old today. she had a wonderful life and will be missed dearly. In one day my family lost a sister, mother, daughter, and a grandmother. Thank you again for everyones support.

My wife and I were at the point (with our 6yr old son) when this tragedy occurred. We were planning back-to-back guided dives so one of us could stay on-shore with our son. I was getting ready to enter the water when the screaming started. At first it sounded like kids making noise; some time elapsed before "help" became discernible. At that time everyone on-shores focus shifted to the water. All we could see was a diver in the water, near a boat, outside the dive park shouting for help. As soon as "help" was heard, 911 was called, and it was yelled back to the boat / diver that 911 was responding.

At this point the fact that another diver was involved was not known to those on-shore, we thought the surfaced diver was the injured party. A minute or so later we heard that a "diver was stuck in the water", our guide from Scuba Luv, along with some other divers (including some snorkelers) began heading out to the site. At this point pleas of "we need a diver" were heard from the boat. Precious minutes were wasted due to poor communication.

My wife took our son to the restroom, while she was gone I saw a limp suited diver being dragged onto the lifeguard boat (I didn't see any equipment on the diver other than a wetsuit as she was hoisted aboard). Almost immediately someone on-boards began CPR. The CPR continued as my wife came back from the restroom. After the rescue boat left, the dive park was re-opened, but we decided to scrub our dives, and headed back to the shop.

I would like to welcome each of you to Scubaboard and am sorry that this tragedy is your first introduction to Scubaboard. We are a community of caring divers and we extend our condolences to you on the loss of a loved one. Just as the young diver who attempted the rescue, you will find that the dive community is a compassionate one, supportive of our dive buddies, including you and your families.

Babygirlbowtie, AshleyBradley, and Ladybeck999, please remember that your loved one was living her life to the fullest by enjoying her new found sport and love of the sea. Troth, we hope that being a witness to this incident does not deter you from pursuing your interest in diving with proper training. We invite you to peruse the other forums to learn more about diving and dive training. The Casino Point Dive Park can be a wondrous magical place to dive.

The threads in this Accidents and Incidents Forum are a place for the community to discuss what happened, potential scenarios and possible solutions. The discussions can sometimes become passionate but by dissecting the events such as this one, we hope that all divers learn how to prevent future tragedies. Diving can be a safe sport as long as divers dive conservatively within their training and experience levels. Feel free to ask questions and hopefully we can help you with answers.

 

[Leejnd]

I echo Elena's comments, and also suggest that someone open a thread in Passings, so that condolences and support to the family/friends/witnesses can continue in a more appropriate forum.

It can be upsetting for family & friends to follow the discussions in this forum. We divers are always looking for ways to improve the safety of our sport, and increase our own understanding of the types of things that lead to diver injuries and fatalities. Consequently, the discussions in here can sometimes come across as blaming or attacking the victims. That is definitely not our intention. But it's important to know that we do dissect the incident to the extreme, which can involve looking for the things that victims might have done wrong.

Please do not take any such discussion as a criticism of your loved one. On the contrary, we're hoping to eek out the tiniest silver lining from such a tragedy. If one diver's life is saved from having read this discussion, that's the best we can hope for.

I know for a fact some people (myself included) have learned things from these dissections that have improved our ultimate safety in the water, and even saved lives. But I'm sure that doesn't make it any easier for a family/friend of a deceased diver to read comments that appear to lay the blame on the victim. Please keep that in mind as you read this thread going forward.

 

[Jon C]

Very sad situation. One can only hope that the family will find some comfort in the fact this woman was enjoying life and doing something she loved.

I do agree with Leejnd that it seems dangerous that everyone is considered "able" enough after completing the open water dives. Based on that logic, two or more people with only their open water dives can go diving together. Who is the leader in that arrangement? Who is watching who? I have never seen two new divers with the same comfort or skill level...how can they all fit into one measure of proficiency? Not possible.

Casino Point is an interesting dive site. I believe it provides false comfort of being a "beginner friendly" site. Maybe its those really nice stairs and rails leading into the water. With the drop-off it is easy to go to deep if you do not pay attention or do not have the experience to continuously monitor your situation. Certainly it is best to have an experienced diver with new divers during all dives...maybe Casino Point requires this more than we all thought before this tragedy.

My prayers go out to her family and friends.